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Annette
EV/OLUTIONER
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From: KIEV/
Registered: 30-05-2004
Posts: 313
Well, I think that art in general can't be qualitative or not qualitative, 'cos it's just a way how one person (creator) feels. Is  Malevich's "Black square" qualitative? A lot of people say it's genial. My opinion is that we can't analyse art like we analyse an IQ test, for example, 'cos it's very personal thing.

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We travel different roads, but we are still the same

03-04-2005 08:44
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sycamore
Holy Ghost-Vacuumist
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Registered: 19-01-2005
Posts: 204

Annette wrote:

Well, I think that art in general can't be qualitative or not qualitative, 'cos it's just a way how one person (creator) feels. Is  Malevich's "Black square" qualitative? A lot of people say it's genial. My opinion is that we can't analyse art like we analyse an IQ test, for example, 'cos it's very personal thing.

I can agree that every person (creator) feels just in his own way. But not every is available to introduce his feelings in that way he would really like (I don't mean Vacuum).
The same in the art: we differ pictures getting its skills, embedded by his                 
creator; we differ pictures into a simple drawings or masterpieces.                     :lovevac: 
And I can share Vacuum's feelings, I can hear their feelings.
But (it's just my own opinion) I think the meaning of the words, the meaning of their feelings would be brighter with richer and deeper music. I'd very very very like to hear more of alive music and deeper sound.


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"So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see Him..." (Luke 19;4)

03-04-2005 09:26
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The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

sycamore wrote:

No doubts, V-style has a lot of places of interest in its music, but during my every listening to new Vacuum I get opinion that something's not enough. Maybe Wollbek's not enough for music (because of lack of musical education), maybe Matias solo's not enough, maybe saturation of music is not enough... I don't know really... I can compare my feelings, like whene you're eating a lot of qualitative food, but still hungry. I really think they should invite more professionals in writing music, like Bard did for his projects, incl. Vacuum (I don't wanna offend Mattias or Wollbek). :lovevac:
And I have such wishes not for making 'em more popular, but for making more qualitative music.

Well, I would not say new V//-music needs more quality. It's just a question of taste.
But for me really good things always should leave the feeling of smth unfinished, unsaid. Otherwise you will not have to return to it and listen once more to understand completely.
Really tasty food will always make you to want more, to feel still hungry...


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

05-04-2005 06:16
   
The God
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

Annette wrote:

Well, I think that art in general can't be qualitative or not qualitative, 'cos it's just a way how one person (creator) feels. Is  Malevich's "Black square" qualitative? A lot of people say it's genial. My opinion is that we can't analyse art like we analyse an IQ test, for example, 'cos it's very personal thing.

Personally I consider "BS" by Malevich to be real masterpiece. It's a brand. Briliant dea. It is my favourite screensaver in Windows...;-))


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

05-04-2005 06:26
   
Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527
Hi, here is me again  :winky:

Compared to old Vacuum, new one sounds poorer in a way that old Vacuum was a glamorous spiritual bomb, if I can say so  :smile: Music was richer definitely and lyrics were astounding, very interesting with many scientific terms, and breath taking – feeling like you don’t know what they mean but they leave you breathless.
New Vacuum, to me, is totally different. It’s a different kind of spirituality – there is nothing grand, powerful in it ... it’s more alike Christian spiritual path ... and darkness in new Vacuum is different ... Is it simply depression, melancholy , loss of faith ? Well, to me it doesn’t seem so. Nature of New Vacuum darkness reminds me very much on a thing which St. John Of The Cross called “ The Dark Night Of The Soul”. It refers on dark periods when we are “down with God”, periods of spiritual suffering when all our props are gone but when we also get to see bad parts of our own nature … these dark periods are painful, but useful steps in spiritual cognitions …

"Therefore, rejoice, oh friend, and sing in
the darkness of sorrow:
Night is the mother of day, Chaos the
neighbor of God."


I think old and new Vacuum are very different and valuable in their own different way.
“We travel different roads, but we are still the same, we are still the same”   Are we ?  :winky:

Last edited by Masha (05-04-2005 08:55)


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05-04-2005 08:11
   
sycamore
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Registered: 19-01-2005
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The God wrote:

It's just a question of taste.

I think my taste coincides with yours, otherwise I wouldn't stay here and wouldn't be called "highest vacuumist" ;-)

The God wrote:

But for me really good things always should leave the feeling of smth unfinished, unsaid.

That's wy I want to feel it complete, even if it's in vain.
But I understand, YWLILUTT wasn't build in a day, it required a lot of time and effort, every song required... It is their right, I can't do anything, but just respect it.
:lovevac:


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"So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see Him..." (Luke 19;4)

06-04-2005 02:00
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Shadow
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576

So, I’m back here. Not for long though…

My God

The God wrote:

Well, I see our discussion about new V// style comes deeper and deeper.
My suggestion is to split music and lyrics if we want to classify it.
We can define music style and then define lyrics style.
Tony, I can’t agree with you here. Sorry, my dear... IMHO, lyrics and music grown together. And together they make our impressions of style. 


The God wrote:

Otherwise if we try to put the style of new album to any existing frames, we just loose our time.
I guess new Vacuum style can’t be squeezed into any existing frames. 


The God wrote:

I see a lot of synth-pop base in it with strong influence of dark-wave and other gothic themes (in lyrics as well).
I agree in common. But more than dark-wave I hear in music sounds and in lyrics words exactly notes of psychedelia. Of course, in the original meaning of this term not being connected with hallucinogens or so…
                                                                                                               



Masha:smile: nice to see your face on avatar

Masha wrote:

Compared to old Vacuum, new one sounds poorer in a way that old Vacuum was a glamorous spiritual bomb
I can’t agree with your word “poorer”. It’s just rich of another treasures in its different way. IMHO :-) 


Masha wrote:

Music was richer definitely and lyrics were astounding, very interesting with many scientific terms, and breath taking – feeling like you don’t know what they mean but they leave you breathless.
So, we could name old Vacuum style as something like pathos-sympho-synth-pop :winky:
Btw, why nobody makes try to classify previous Vacuum style?


Masha wrote:

New Vacuum, to me, is totally different. It’s a different kind of spirituality – there is nothing grand, powerful in it...
Do we need only something grand ang powerful in music? Don’t you accept something less powerful and more close to your soul? (Just rhetorical…)


Masha wrote:

It refers on dark periods when we are “down with God”, periods of spiritual suffering when all our props are gone but when we also get to see bad parts of our own nature… these dark periods are painful, but useful steps in spiritual cognitions…
Yes! Yes! Yes! And Yes! You understand it right (if I can judge from my place). And what don’t you accept in this way… I can’t perceive… Sorry…
         

Last edited by Shadow (06-04-2005 17:24)


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"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

06-04-2005 17:18
   
The God
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Shadow wrote:


My God

The God wrote:

Well, I see our discussion about new V// style comes deeper and deeper.
My suggestion is to split music and lyrics if we want to classify it.
We can define music style and then define lyrics style.
Tony, I can’t agree with you here. Sorry, my dear... IMHO, lyrics and music grown together. And together they make our impressions of style. 

You know, that I know it well. Surely I'm not a proffessional, but still...
But my idea was just about way of classifying. As music and lyrics are not always fitting same frames. We can classify separately music and lyrics and then to combine.
E.g. I would describe music as emotional synth-pop with elements of dark-wave/gothic.
And lyrics as romantic, philisophical, religious...
Next step is to combine it, using key definitions...  :cool:


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

07-04-2005 03:48
   
Satellite
that's me in the corner
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From: around
Registered: 01-04-2004
Posts: 121

Valenok wrote:

Now Symphonic Orchestra is replaced by Fruity Loops. I don't feel sorry somehow.


I'm not that definite in my point of view yet. I guess I wish the orchestra would still be here. I think it would sound great along with thumping basses, atmospheric pads and vintage leads...

As for me, M&W have limited themselves in the last album. But that is another issue I won't go deep into now... Maybe some other time ;-)


Annette wrote:

I wonder, what Mattias will answer on the same question on "vacuum-people"


"no answer yet..." probably...


wonder wrote:

New Vacuum is Mattias' solo, which I waited for...


I don't think so. There's a fair share of Wollbeck in the new album. I believe, the most of programming, actually...

Well, of course, it also depends on how to define a solo work. If you call the new album Mattias' solo, then why don't we call the first two albums Alexander's solo?


Shadow wrote:

Exactly Sea Of Silence IMHO is the most psychedelic song on the album.


Mine's choice is Temporary Solution. This is the most psychodelic thing I've heard since Bob Marley.


sycamore wrote:

Maybe Wollbek's not enough for music (because of lack of musical education), maybe Matias solo's not enough, maybe saturation of music is not enough...


I've always thought the great lack of the last album was the change of Mattias singing. It works fine for me, really, but I guess I'm just missing the early days...


sycamore wrote:

I really think they should invite more professionals in writing music, like Bard did for his projects, incl. Vacuum (I don't wanna offend Mattias or Wollbek).
And I have such wishes not for making 'em more popular, but for making more qualitative music.


Agree.
I still get an annoying feeling like there's something missing, but I can't figure out what exactly, yet...


The God wrote:

But for me really good things always should leave the feeling of smth unfinished, unsaid. Otherwise you will not have to return to it and listen once more to understand completely.
Really tasty food will always make you to want more, to feel still hungry...


Yes, but, IMHO, the unfinishedness ;-) that you're talking about should be in a concept of song, in its idea, rather than in the production.
Just don't get me wrong - of course, in great extent it is a matter of taste, but the line between the conceptionally brilliant artwork and mediocre production is thin and should always be observed.

The line about food is fabulous.


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07-04-2005 07:00
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Satellite
that's me in the corner
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Registered: 01-04-2004
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Masha wrote:

Compared to old Vacuum, new one sounds poorer in a way that old Vacuum was a glamorous spiritual bomb, if I can say so   Music was richer definitely and lyrics were astounding, very interesting with many scientific terms, and breath taking – feeling like you don’t know what they mean but they leave you breathless.


Now let's talk about glamour. The old Vacuum WAS glamourous. It was GRAND. It was an act. A bomb, as you said. The music was richer, I agree. But, as you correctly pointed, the lyrics were wague. As to their meaning, I'm not even sure if Bard knew himself what they meant. Just a bit of this and that (Shadow, you know what I mean! ;-)) and there you go..
But I can't agree that the new Vacuum is spiritually poorer. On my opinion, the new songs have more soul in them, while the old ones had more pathos. I'm not saying that Mattias' singing was soulless then, and I don't mind patos at all. I'm just saying that the contents of those songs were not exactly real (that's what I call it - you may agree and you may not). The new album showed us the real soul of Mattias, his true emotions and feelings - even the change of his singing style emphasizes it. While the old songs were about stratosphere, nuclear weapon and women named America. I can't believe this is what people think about, what dominates in their thoughts and what their most intimate emotions are about...


Masha wrote:

New Vacuum, to me, is totally different. It’s a different kind of spirituality – there is nothing grand, powerful in it ...


To me, the powerful thing is the voice... The Voice.


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07-04-2005 07:27
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Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
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Shadow wrote:

Masha:smile: nice to see your face on avatar

Thanks   :smile:  Great to see you back ! I was just getting concerned where is Shadow, my discussion partner  :winky:

Shadow wrote:

I can’t agree with your word “poorer”.

You and Satellite misunderstood this word. I didn’t use it in a negative way. On the contrary, in a very positive way ! I’ll explain more later.

Shadow wrote:

It’s just rich of another treasures in its different way. IMHO :-)

Didn’t I say the same ?!
Masha wrote:

I think old and new Vacuum are very different and valuable in their own different way.



Shadow wrote:

Do we need only something grand and powerful in music? Don’t you accept something less powerful and more close to your soul? (Just rhetorical…)

Just tell me how did you come to conclusion that I don’t except something less powerful, please…  :blink:

Shadow wrote:



Masha wrote:

It refers on dark periods when we are “down with God”, periods of spiritual suffering when all our props are gone but when we also get to see bad parts of our own nature… these dark periods are painful, but useful steps in spiritual cognitions…
Yes! Yes! Yes! And Yes! You understand it right (if I can judge from my place).

Yes and judging by your reaction you understand it too !  :smile:

Shadow wrote:

And what don’t you accept in this way… I can’t perceive… Sorry…

Shadow, why do you constantly think I’m not accepting this way … I really don’t know where you get these conclusions …
Actually, I understand it so well because it IS kind of my way too  :winky:

Last edited by Masha (08-04-2005 05:39)


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Bring on the clouds
Let the raindance begin

07-04-2005 15:03
   
Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527

Satellite wrote:


But I can't agree that the new Vacuum is spiritually poorer.

I didn’t say that  :rolleyes:  I said that new Vacuum is poorer in a way that it isn’t glamorous as old Vacuum.
But ,you know, you didn’t make a mistake actually by writing this “spiritually poorer”…
Do you know what Jesus meant when he said : “Blessed are POOR IN SPIRIT, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven” ?
And it’s not a typographical error  :smile: , it is really written poor in spirit, not poor in material things.
Well, opposite of being poor in spirit is being full of yourself, feeling powerful, yes and glamur is there too … and actually we are heading in a wrong direction then.
Being “poor in spirit” means: “and I’m down here on my knees, common and take me home”, “ I’m full of doubt, and I’m down with God, does it help if I pray, will You listen when I say, that I’m not completely happy with myself”, “ I need a beacon in the night” …
It’s about that dark period that Shadow and I talked, when we are full of doubts and powerless and how actually going through that brings us closer to God (the way Jesus said it) or one step up in spiritual cognitions ( the way I said it  :smile:  )


Satellite wrote:


On my opinion, the new songs have more soul in them, while the old ones had more pathos.


I think the same, that’s why I said I would name new Vacuum style as soul-synth style  :winky:


Satellite wrote:


I'm just saying that the contents of those songs were not exactly real (that's what I call it - you may agree and you may not). The new album showed us the real soul of Mattias, his true emotions and feelings - even the change of his singing style emphasizes it. While the old songs were about stratosphere, nuclear weapon and women named America. I can't believe this is what people think about, what dominates in their thoughts and what their most intimate emotions are about...


Well, about “real” … and old Vacuum … do you think that priests from ancient times and nowadays too, go to monasteries, or shamans who live alone separated from the rest of the village, or monks in their temples … do you think that their getting aside from “real” life is just a coincidence for all of them …
Old Vacuum was like a monk in a temple … he said goodbye to earth life or “real” life as you say because that what he strives for is far more greater for him then his own personal life. That’s why personal feelings weren’t present in old Vacuum. It is a higher level in spiritual cognitions because it shows how much they got free from egoism … because when we are unhappy because of events in real life … it’s all because we WANT something in OUR lives … we think about ourselves. A monk doesn’t think about himself, he thinks about others ( not crying over his own personal life), he thinks about all people on Earth, yes, he might be concerned about stratosphere, nuclear weapon and America. I think that Bard compares America there with a powerful woman because woman is there a symbol of temptation, attraction like Poison Ivy, that leads us to misery and he compares American way of living with it because it appears very attractive (good standard of living …) but leads to misery(obesity, ecological destruction, who knows what else Bard has in mind …)

On other hand, there is different spirituality in new Vacuum … it’s a way through “real” life. “It’s all in what we say, how we live our lives”
With every word, action that we make towards other people, we make one element in our relation with ourselves, or God (one can say). But it’s not some God who sits in cosmos. No, “There is one inside you,One will free you, one will mind your mind”. Why is it so ?
Because every action we make, we know in our hearts what have we done… where is noone outside us who will judge us.
Of course, all this in my humble opinion  :smile:

Last edited by Masha (08-04-2005 01:24)


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Bring on the clouds
Let the raindance begin

07-04-2005 15:11
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

Masha wrote:


Well, about “real” … and old Vacuum … do you think that priests from ancient times and nowadays too, go to monasteries, or shamans who live alone separated from the rest of the village, or monks in their temples … do you think that their getting aside from “real” life is just a coincidence for all of them …
Old Vacuum was like a monk in a temple … he said goodbye to earth life or “real” life as you say because that what he strives for is far more greater for him then his own personal life. That’s why personal feelings weren’t present in old Vacuum. It is a higher level in spiritual cognitions because it shows how much they got free from egoism … because when we are unhappy because of events in real life … it’s all because we WANT something in OUR lives … we think about ourselves. A monk doesn’t think about himself, he thinks about others ( not crying over his own personal life), he thinks about all people on Earth, yes, he might be concerned about stratosphere, nuclear weapon and America. I think that Bard compares America there with a powerful woman because woman is there a symbol of temptation, attraction like Poison Ivy, that leads us to misery and he compares American way of living with it because it appears very attractive (good standard of living …) but leads to misery(obesity, ecological destruction, who knows what else Bard has in mind …)

On other hand, there is different spirituality in new Vacuum … it’s a way through “real” life. “It’s all in what we say, how we live our lives”
With every word, action that we make towards other people, we make one element in our relation with ourselves, or God (one can say). But it’s not some God who sits in cosmos. No, “There is one inside you,One will free you, one will mind your mind”. Why is it so ?
Because every action we make, we know in our hearts what have we done… where is noone outside us who will judge us.
Of course, all this in my humble opinion  :smile:


I'm not sure I can be fair enougth when talking about monks and religion... I do not beleive most of them. Faith is much (MUCH) higher than any religion. Internal Flame gives much more light and warmth than the fire of burning down prophets. IMHO.

But talking about Vacuum... I wouldn't compare old Vacuum with anchorite, living alone aside. With one who needs his mind and soul, his faith and God. WHo lives at higher level of being inside his heart.
No. Absolutely. I love former V// music, admire vocal. I agree that there were some bright ideas. But in general lyrics were quite shallow. Too bright to be truth. Too affected to be honest.
I would rather compare old Vacuum to nowdays Baptist preacher. One who uses bombastic words to attract masses, to earn more from his flock. And sometimes more money, not faith.
So I perceive former Vacuum as more pompous and less heartfelt. Good marketing product, developed to differentiate from the market. Product for non-Enlosh speaking community. For ones who can eat it not deeping into the sence of lyrics.

New Vacuum turns from global to personal. From whole world to one soul. From stratosphere to internal world. And I like it even if I miss the ennormous power sounded in Mattias' voice at first albums. And I respect it as true creation of soul, not made for sale.


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

08-04-2005 05:14
   
wonder
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Masha wrote:

We travel different roads, but we are still the same, we are still the same”   Are we ?  :winky:

The core does not change!!!
The question is: was old Matty truly in him CORE?


08-04-2005 15:21
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wonder
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There is real good talking. Interesting thoughts. And prooves. Thank u!!!

bout style: The Vacuum style, imho, the Vacuum Synthpop.


bout themes: I agree with Shadow: "Don`t u accept something less powerful and more  close to ur sole"!!!!
I agree with the God that the lyrics is romantic. Now songs romantic too. It leave behind weekdays troubles. It is clear, cold and burn dream.
I don`t agree with Satellite:"As for me, M&W have limited themeselves in the last album" I feel well the limits of different band. It`s not so!

bout solo: I still think the YALILUTT is Matty solo. Performers use help others ones!
Old Vacuum not Alex solo! It`s baby of all group. All 3 members attracted attention. Alex wasn`t frontman, almost don`t sing.

note: Don`t get down ones that get high others!!!

I agree with the God last message! Bard do pop. There is no such truth. He strikes up the tune.It was a quality product that makes more than another. It was more attractive. But new more truly, deeply. It made for us not for our money.


08-04-2005 16:57
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