Hello everyone, I gues you remember this song of Elton John ... that's what comes into my head when im thinking about the following situation: We've got nice web site, forum, there are some more fans left and so on. But ... i'm personally keep trying to realize - am i still a fan? ... a fan of what? AOL - doesn't exist anymore. BWO's "Fantasy" - had to be composed 15 years ago, and actually musically it's not a hit ... Mr. Bard would better present this song to alcazar, as i sad in comments: there are more girls in alcazar, at least they would rescue the song from grey color it is now. It looks like a genius A. Bard has stoped his musical development and that's it. I wont talk about this band now, le's wait for more songs...
But the most sad situation happend with my favorite vacuum. Here's my opinion or thoughts (being a vacuum fan from the beginning and a pro musician): 1. It's difficult to listen to the song from the beginning to the end in general, no musical development, really boring stuff from the beginning to the end ... same same same... plastic sound.
2. It's always and really reminds me mobile phone music, especially "Queen", or hand-watch advertizment, there are nice tic tac, tic tac, tic tac - goes through the whole song. Just a few days ago i realized a secret of "vocuum sound of today", if you wanna make vacuum music sound of today (you might like that sound and have some musical mood inside) you mustn't think about music, just download "Fruity Loops", install it on your home PC and you'll have vacuum sound, exactly. It's better to add some strings (it could be any cheapest soft synth, example of cheapest strings sound you can hear from "FLM"), then mix strings with Fruity Loops and you've got it!!! The new Mattias's way (approach) to the sining reminds me russian rock bands (some time even Zemfira, some times BG, i know what i'm talking about), befor it was (mostly) classical approach (it was truly ART) and now it's Russian+Depesh Mode=russian depesh mode band with no melodies music. Self protected music from audience. 3. I've got a problem with remembering their songs. Don't you have it? I did listen to their songs many times keep trying to learn melody or whatever, but no success. Nothing can stay after. No way to repeat even one melody line... (only "FLM" - is a little exeption from the rest of songs). So many genius people, starting from Alexander Bard and so much disappointment from all of them today. If we take a look at another guys like ... Sting ... every CD is Better then previouse, he does change sound every time, but he never changed highest musical culture of his inside, never does cheap "low budget" plastic mobile music, thinking it can help to rich some commercial goals, expande audience, earn more money ... it's a mistake and loss. Same with ... George Benson ... JAZZ!!!! His 2004 CD is A really R&B!!!! Wav!!! i couldn't believe this is the same George Benson who plays and sings jazz standards ... but today is 2004 he had to take it in acconut, as usually he's done a perfect Cd, perfect job ... "A klass" ! And many bands and singers, players are changing something in every their next CDs, searching for new sound or ideas, but unfortunatelly not the same situation with vacuum ...
"It's sad, so sad, it's so sad sad situation" / E. John
_______________________________________ Do you know that we will judge angles? Do you know that the saints will judge the world? Corinthians 6:2-3 (C)Silent Hill
I see, that there is a potential in Mattias, and it’s silly to believe in Bard’s reborn…
I'm very glad if you still can see any potential in Mattias even if the audience don't really need new Vacuum AT ALL! Where're promised albums? Huh? Where're "castles in air"? WHERE??
The only thing we've got since '98 - couple of "so-so" songs.
HAVE YOU EVER listen to "Plutonium Cathedral", "Seance At The Chaebol"? HAVE YOU EVER read any before-98 Vacuum lyrics? It seems you have not!
Brute wrote:
He is old, useless, paranoiac, piece of organic materialul
Masha
Vacuumist in the Void Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527
In my opinion Bard made the best songs in the world. No matter what happens further , that success stays FOREVER. He achieved something what only rare people can. Mattias now has his chance . I don't think it is right to blame Bard for something- at least now when we have internet, we can all hear the song and see for ourselves. If a song is that good , then noone can do anything against it.
Last edited by Masha (07-04-2004 01:44)
_______________________________________ Bring on the clouds Let the raindance begin
To Brute: Dear Brute, now im gonna answer you, there are some things i aree with you and some things i don't.
1. You are right, I do not like to listen to it. I keep trying so hard to find a new sound, images, melody lines, positive emotions and at least general musical (ART) sens in new songs of vacuum, like it always was before, but i cant ... I do want to belive in new CD, but i cant ... the reasons why it's happening i discribed in my previouse post (read it againg in case you need it).
2. That's actul reason why i can't be a real fan of vacuum music of today, By the way:
Brute wrote:
"You’re a fan of your self… I can continue this idea, but I don’t want to".
what did you mean when wrote this? It's the first time in my life i've heard such funny and stupid at the same time thing ...
3.
Brute wrote:
""We all know that you were disappointed in V/acuum since Icaros".
Who - "We all know", who is it? But anyway, im disappointed sure, and MANY MANY MANY people, that's the old and very well-known thing.
4.
Brute wrote:
“Mattias has spoiled a band of Guinness Bard”…
Did i tell this, where did you get it from? But ok, here i'm agree with you again. But i would say that Mattias got NAME, CONTACTS, CONNECTIONS, MAY BE SOME MORE OTHER POSSIBILITIES ... and FANS due to A. Bard, and now ... it's really "rolling down ... " to the end. I'm sorry about that.
5.
Brute wrote:
"Thank God that Bard has left Vacuum".
Yeah, it looks like Bard left a kid along and kid is not able to manage his life ... and againg i agree with you when you wrote somebody's saing:
Brute wrote:
" "Everything what have a beginning have an end”
, unfortunatelly Mattias speeds vacuum's end a lot faster that it could be.
6.
Brute wrote:
"I’m sure that I’ll like it"
(a new CD) It's good for you, it seems to me you are so sure you'll like it that even no needs for you to listen to it. Looks like you don't really care about the music on CD ... or did you ever care about it before?
7.
Brute wrote:
"Evolution of the V/acuum goes on".
Please read an answer for this from Simargl's post upper than mine. And come down from the sky to the Earth.
8.
Brute wrote:
"He (A. Bard) is old, useless, paranoiac, piece of organic materialul"
After this ... i have nothing to say ... You can't even realize, you have even no idea what are you talking about... There's a fact - A. Bard - is a part of a history of POP music already, i guess even kind of a "Swedish POP music God Father" or close to that. He doesn't need any rebirth or revivle ... he's in the history already...
To Masha: Dear Masha, im totaly agree with you, and i can say more! It doesn't metter what band it is ... it's possible to listen to EVERY BARD'S SONG ... for EVERY BAND ... is it VACUUM or AOL or ALCAZAR or whatever ... He's the one who MAKES MUSIC. Everybody forgot about MUSIC ... "fruty loops" technicians ...
nukleopatra
The Sacred One From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
I agree with Brute... if you don't like the new material of vacuum then don't listen to it.... but really you should await the new album before you pass judgment.. we can't all like the same things and yes Vacuum have changed...but in my opinion for the better.. Anders and Mattias have grown as songwriters and the new songs are vibrant, beautiful and cover a wider range of styles but still retain the flavour of vacuum..... If you listen to past Vacuum Albums they have all been different in style.... Seance and Culture of night were completely different to TPC and so the band evolves and moves on... To say you could just download fruity loops or mobile phone sounds to sound like Vacuum is crazy and you could say that about any electronic based band... including Dep Mode.... For me Mattias's voice is extrodinary and unique and personally I find anything that Sting has produced would reduce me to sleep in seconds... but thats the key.. we are all different with different tastes... so if your tastes have changed and you no longer feel you can be a Vacuum fan that is your choice but i fell sad to have lost you.... The songs I have heard from the new album ( and patience people. Mattias wants this album tobe perfect and is working his arse off) are the best songs Vacuum have produced and the best Vocals Mattias has ever given... I too am glad that Alexander has left the band... he can pursue his own ideas with BWO ( and yet again I think its harsh to judge on one track) and Mattias and Anders can guide Vacuum ( I hope) to worldwide success and not just in Russia. To be sucessful this album has to appeal to more than just the Russian fans and however beautiful Fools is.. it is not representitive of the other new songs... you will be suprised.... have faith... its easy to criticise and i hope we don't loose you as a fan but I respect your views and wishes..
david x
_______________________________________ I've said I believe that the world is a ship and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....
Hi David! Nice to see you and here you, honestly speaking. Aaaa ... do you agree with Brute regarding Bard's illness and disability as well? You din't say nothing about it ... it's interesting for me. Do You respect this imortant person or you treat him in the same manner?
Regarding Sting, he produces elite music and i know many people that can fall to sleep cause they need something more form "booty music" like. I know it's not your situation, by the way thanks for opening David Sylvian for me. I keep listnening to his new CD from beginning to the end many times. Reminds me sort of Pink Floyed stuff, not vacuum at all, thank you for this guy. Yeah ... almost forget still regarding Sting ... if you or somebody else want to understand what i mean listen 3 songs from his last CD (they are my favorite in his new CD) "Inside", "Stolen Car", "Never coming home" - you will cry.
Regarding
David wrote:
if you don't like the new material of vacuum then don't listen to it
- i answered already. I want to listen to it, i loveD vacuum, but i can't stand it anymore, espesially absence of melodies and primitive technical experiments. Also where's the real vocal??? Some crying only ... instead... oh man ... there's another thing, i guess if Mattias did like a lot of other guys P. Gabriel left Genesis, Sting left The Police and would name his new stuff like "pesonal project of Mattias" would be another thing. Do what you whant, it's not a vacuum anymore, who cares but he wants to use all then he got from Vacuum (from A. Bard actually) and mane a shit from all that someone tallented made FOR HIM. It's a huge responcibility to be a vacuum ))))))
David wrote:
"Anders and Mattias have grown as songwriters"
- no no no ... im not sure what exactly Andreas does, but i think he is a good musician, arranger, komp programmer, sound engeneer-producer - sort of it. And Mattias is ONLY VOCALIST ... unfortunatelly time has showed it already ...
David wrote:
"I too am glad that Alexander has left the band"
- honestly, i think you just don't care about this question, never took or treat it seriously, is it?
When i sad download fruity loops (i will explain you a little bit) of caurse i meant that person must have some little musical background, at least just a little bit, a very little bit. All the rest it does ... do you want me to send you a piece of a demo from that FL? There's a difference between how does Dep Mode use some stuff or other well-known bands and vacuum does. If vacuum produce the song which is like "It's not good" (Dep Mode) i would say: Wav!!! I wouldn't care is it done on FL or Korg or live orchestra from Moskow ... it would be hit. In this situation i can hear SAME drum samples and effects (perfect mastered in studio) but it sounds like home pro tools made with no any mix of anything else besides FL sounds ... it's not a Lable Production at all ... same "low budget" stuff. BUT WHAT MAKES ME REAY UPSET? - IT'S MUSIC... (forgotten word...) As i wrote above, being a professional musician (don't confuse it with pop star), i can tell you each note played on each instrument (tracks, there's no live instreuments at all) but i can't repeat the song melody - it's nonsense ... it says a lot for me. ok, im gonna stop now .. a long message anyway ... im here, im still with you guys, you haven't lost me. It's always nice to talk to you David, i think see ya soon.
Masha
Vacuumist in the Void Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527
damn ... it's nice to hear somebody agrees with me
I also think Vacuum is not Vacuum without Bard ... because Bard was Vacuum!
And I think Mattias should take a new name for his project , which is without Bard.
Bard never did such a thing ( to continue work of somebody else) - he always made a new band for himself !!! and all that because he is a true creator !!!
He goes first in music ...
_______________________________________ Bring on the clouds Let the raindance begin
TO MASHA. Exaclty! you say exactly what i meant. VACUUM WAS BORN BY ALEXANDER BARD. As A FATHER he GAVE to his KID everithing he could ... NAME, IMAGE, CONNECTIONS in the musical industry, and FANS... Now, Mattias is like a kid without dady ... out of control does a lot of bull shit and names it - VACUUM. Even the name "VACUUM" was made by A. Bard ... (i think i'm not mistaken, i took this info from TV interview, if im wrong - sorry). Become YOURSELF, make your name and go ahead, now you have the rights to do what you want, isn't it?
Masha
Vacuumist in the Void Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527
al-wizard wrote:
Become YOURSELF, make your name and go ahead, now you have the rights to do what you want, isn't it?
Yes, it is so !!!
I hope Mattias will have success and find his way to express everything what is inside him (he does seem like very good person).
But, to do that , he must make a cut, distance from Bard - because Bard is too much strong person, too much unique person, too much diferent than Mattias ... they just can't stand much close ... each of them needs his own space for creativity.
And that's what Bard always does ... creates his own ...
_______________________________________ Bring on the clouds Let the raindance begin
07-04-2004 05:29
David Haglund
Sacred Vacuumist From: Sweden
Registered: 04-03-2004
Posts: 133
Simargl wrote:
I'm very glad if you still can see any potential in Mattias even if the audience don't really need new Vacuum AT ALL! Where're promised albums? Huh? Where're "castles in air"? WHERE??
This is actually hilarious... The reason why you can't see "castles in air" is because this is probably taken from a Swedish expresssion, "luftslott", which means "a dream" or "a fantasy" or "something exaggerated"...
I'll get own with my views further down, I just had to do this in a separate post!
/David
_______________________________________ Cut off my nose to spite my face
07-04-2004 05:56
David Haglund
Sacred Vacuumist From: Sweden
Registered: 04-03-2004
Posts: 133
For me, this is an interesting discussion, and I've asked myself similar questions through the years with Vacuum. Is there a point in following Vacuum when Alexander is gone? And the same point can now be made for Alcazar? The answer I come up with is Yes. Over and over again.
I have always been a fan of Alexander Bard, and I always will be. Ever since he went from being the drag queen Barbie to playing trickster in Army of Lovers. What amazes me about Alex is his imagination, and his total disrespect for traditions. "Stagnation is death", he says. That is probably also why he never has the patience to stick to just one project. Still, when Vacuum changes, people here automatically see change as something bad. Why is that?
Alexander Bard was never the front man of Vacuum, and that was a conscious decision on his behalf. Still, I think he was a bit surprised when the rest of the band wanted to go in another direction -- Bard wanted to go gaydisco -- and realized that he wasn't able to replace the rest of the members like he did in AoL. Because Vacuum is Mattias' voice. Just like Martin Gore writes songs for Dave Gahan to sing in Depeche Mode because Gahan is the voice of DM. So Bard formed Alcazar instead. I don't think too many Vacuum fans would have liked Vacuum to turn into Alcazar... And now Alcazar are doing fine without Bard too.
The post from above brings things into perspective if you look at my additions: "VACUUM/DEPECHE MODE/TINA TURNER/CHER WAS BORN BY ALEXANDER BARD/VINCE CLARK/IKE TURNER/SONNY BONO. As A FATHER he GAVE to his KID everithing he could... NAME, IMAGE, CONNECTIONS in the musical industry, and FANS... Now, Mattias/David/Tina/Cher is like a kid without daddy ... out of control does a lot of bullshit and names it - VACUUM/DEPECHE MODE/TINA TURNER/CHER. Even the name "VACUUM/DEPECHE MODE/TINA TURNER/CHER" was made by A. Bard/V. Clark/I. Turner/S. Bono... Become YOURSELF, make your name and go ahead, now you have the rights to do what you want, isn't it?"
I think it is unfair to rule out the new Vacuum without knowing what the new Vacuum is all about. It's like saying that BWO sucks after hearing one hizzy MP3 song sampled from the radio. Or that you dislike the new Sting album after hearing samples on a website or one of the more lackluster songs from that album. I'm a Sting fan too, even though I personally think 2/3 of what he does is just album fillers, but then there is that 1/3 that totally blows me away and moves me. And I hope that the new Vacuum will do the same thing for you. You can't always love everything an artist does, but I'm always willing to give it a chance. I try to reserve judgements for when I actually have something to back up my sentiments with. I was not a big fan of "Fools Like Me" either, but there is a very different album waiting for you. If you still feel that you don't like Vacuum after you've actually heard the whole album, then fine, then we can at least agree on disagreeing. Until then, at least give them the benefit of a doubt.
Vacuum is not the same as it was 8 years ago, but it's still good. And I bet you that for every favorite Bard-penned song you find from the old days, the name Wollbeck will also be there. And Wollbeck is still with Vacuum.
/David Haglund
_______________________________________ Cut off my nose to spite my face
07-04-2004 07:09
nukleopatra
The Sacred One From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
Al-wizard its always good to read your posts.. I respect your opinion but as David haglund says... why do people want Vacuum to stagnate and stay the same... if vacuum never changed people would then say that it was because Alexander had left and mattias had no ideas of his own.. and I totally agree that for me Vacuum IS mattias's Voice.... Mattias has always been the reason i loved vacuum....and I am happy that they are now free from Alexanders influence... Alex now has BWO.... and the trouble is everybody really wants Alex to reform AOL but this will never happen i feel.. and people are always afraid to let go and move on... dont get me wrong.. i think Alexander is a genius and i to have followed his career from barbie and will always find something interesting in what he does.... Now Alcazar are free from Alexander they have shown ( for MY ears) that the songs are bland rubbish.... nothing from Alcazar has equalled the fine debut.. so now we have three different bands to choose from... something for everyone I hope... as to The Anders Lindblom union not producing melodies... the songs from the new album are THE most melodic, emotional and passionate songs Vacuum have ever released... anyway i am glad you have stayed with us and I am sure we can lure you back into the fan base.. i am THAT convinced by these new songs.. but i am also happy that we can all speak our minds and disagree without resorting to the fighting and name calling that goes on in some other forums
David x
_______________________________________ I've said I believe that the world is a ship and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....
To David Huglund: Dear David, thanks for your post, I'll be back as soon as i can but I just want quick post right away:
When you add to my post something like that:
David wrote:
VACUUM/DEPECHE MODE/TINA TURNER/CHER is like a kid without daddy
For me it sounds the same if i add you to the following guys:
DAVID HUGLUND/BILL CLINTON/BILL GATES GATES ... and whatever you what.
Everything i write/wrote regarding VACUUM i'll NEVER say regarding TINA TURNER, CHER DEP MODE, please don't even compere all of them to vacuum. All the kids are really different, some of them are not kids at all from very beginning but some of them will stay kids untill death. TINA and the rest don't need anybody, but Mattias ... sorry ... different then Tina, Dep Mode, and the rest of compny. I hope you know what i mean. I'll be back soon. Don't add anything to my words plz, ok? Thank you David.
) © Matrix 3. Same situation is with Bard. His talent is “rolling down”. Soon we’ll see his “ground zero”. Evolution of the V/acuum goes on. First steps are always hard to make. To judge about “plastic pop music” we should wait for a New Album. I’m sure that I’ll like it, and many others will. I see, that there is a potential in Mattias, and it’s silly to believe in Bard’s reborn…
