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Vacuum Music Foruum » Vacuum discussion » Piracy.. a huge problem or not??? IMORTANT questions we need to ask?  
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nukleopatra
The Sacred One
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From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
I'd like to hear your views on this matter...   I think  one of the main reasons that vacuum do not have a greater audience is the fact that so many copies of their albums are pirated and sold illegally in Russia ect.. and usually these are bad quality with bad graphics and design... I know as I have some of these items.. even the songs are spelt wrong.. of course the biggest problem is that mattias gets no money from these productts and vacuum NEED to be a financial success to continue.. Its very tempting to buy a cd very cheap.. we get what we want but as the creative force behind the music mattias gets nothing.. and more important no financial return for the record company who in the end are in this for the business..not just to support mattias..  Millions of bootlegs of the ast albums were sold.. if these were converted into REAL record sales then vacuum would be a very successful and profitable Band and this in turn would make it easier for mattias to make and sell new material and more albums and be more creative.. as fans I think we have a duty.. we all say we love Mattias. but " man cannot live on love alone".. he need sto earn a living.... even though i buy these bootlegs as a  fan if I see them I ALWAYS buy all the official releases also... This way I am supporting vacuum... and I feel that we need to buy as many cds from official sources as we can.. that ay the new album will be a financial success and will be released in more countries and more people will hear Vacuum and more success and so mattias can have a long and productive career... and at the end of the day.. isn't that something we ALL want.. Sorry this is such a long mail but i think this is a VERY important issue..


David x


_______________________________________
I've said I believe that the world is a ship
and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip
and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away
with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....

29-01-2004 06:36
   
Bagira
Dead Vacuumist
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From: Spb
Registered: 29-01-2004
Posts: 219
Well, David, piracy can be rather a blessing than a curse for Russia, where many people cannot afford themselves a new officially released album. The price of any official CD can't be compared to the salary people get.  :mad:
Yours,
Bagira.

Last edited by Bagira (29-01-2004 16:54)


_______________________________________
I've locked my heart, I'll keep my feelings there
I've stocked my heart with icy, frigid air
And I mean to care for no one
Because I'm through with love

29-01-2004 16:39
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nukleopatra
The Sacred One
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From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
Hi Bagira,

I totally undertsand what you say..but if all music was pirate music then there would be no music to buy as artists would make no money and not be able to stay as musicians.. I think the record labels and companies in Russia have to agree with the artists to maybe take smaller royalties and make the official cd,s cheaper.. that way everybody wins... In the end Piracy is destroying the industry...  Nice to hear your views.

David
x


_______________________________________
I've said I believe that the world is a ship
and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip
and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away
with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....

29-01-2004 18:35
   
Shadow
7777777
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576
Some time ago in Vacuum.org.ua forum I tried to explain to russian audience why each Vacuum fan must buy legal Vacuum albums instead of pirate copies. My explanations were the same as yours, David. But people (as I see now again) dont want to hear my arguments. They only still complain about low salary and forget that even if a legal album from Vacuum costs less than about 20$ (and appears once in several years) a loyal Vacuum Fan can give up buying any finery for the sake of buying a legal album. Its only once in four-three years! Once in three years a human can refuse of any thing to be a really loyal fan.
Here are people who have computers and Internet connection. And CD players as well. It means that they aint lowest beggars. And all what prevents them to buy legal stuff is a temptation to pay less and their own laziness. They think nobody will learn that they use illegal. And forget that their way makes them betrayers.
I think my former and present co-sitizens should stop picture themselves as miserables and beg their bread.
Sorry for sharpness. But I cant perceive when one loudly declares a huge love to Vacuum, Mattias, Bard etc, reproaches the musiciand with their long silence and at the same use pirate copies and recommend them to others.
Sorry once more :-)

Sincerely yours M :-)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

29-01-2004 21:09
   
al-wizard
Alco-Vacuumized
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From: Canada
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 167
Hey David!!! Can I ask you a question? Do you know the difference between England (or any other civilized, developed in economy and mentally europian and noth american country ...) and all that kind of russian shit (sorry, that's the fact i did compare, that's my personal conclusion) ... like ex-soviet union republics? Should I explain it to you? What's the avarage salary in england and in russia? in ukraine it's about 40$ monthly (if you don't steal everything from country economy, like some compnys' bosses) ... how can you afford and how many original CDs you can afford a month (instead of paying bills and getting food ...)? i would rather not say - you'll never find a firm CD stor in there... usually a pirate store (like flue market) is the one original store you can get anything ... That's right, mattias can't get anything from russia ... bla ... bla ...bla... but ... i guess ...  his is smart enough to realize if he wants to make money ... (everybody need it, and want it) - russia is not that BEST market for this ... he must focus on europian market (there's totally different music in North America, nobody knows about vacuum at all, but other swedish bands are realy popular like ACE of BASE, E-Type, Roxette ... different abbas-teen and adult's ... ). Russian kids love vacuum's music but it doesnt mean money or financial assistance at all in this case... by the way most of vacuums' fans are kids. I will never realize how could it happen ... so seriouse music with classical background, musica arrangement and sining approach? but anyway that's the sad fact, they also can't earn any money (like their parants as well) to get any original CDs ...
So ... Like Elton John said in his song: "It's so sad sad situation ...". That's it.


30-01-2004 03:06
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al-wizard
Alco-Vacuumized
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From: Canada
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 167
Also ... pirate's stuff is the biggest problem around the world today ... i talk to some producers here in Toronto they don't accept anybody any any kind of music ... today everybody can get the single from internet and nobady want to spand money on CDs ... it;s regarding music in general, not only vacuum's problem. But there are some guys (like Sting for example ... his last CD is terrific!!) they never go back and forth trying to change their musical format or anything like that ... like vacuum has done ... unfortunatelly  there's no more vacuum today, only names from some previouse vacuum members ... do you like the new commercial trying and searching of mattias? Would you pay your attention to this sh.ty music if you hear it a long ago instead of "I Breath" for example? I wouldn't ...

30-01-2004 03:15
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nukleopatra
The Sacred One
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From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
Good to hear your outspoken Views al-wizard.. I cannot understand however why you sound so angry and bitter... YES of course I undertand the difference between Countries like the UK and US and europe and russia ect... Don't percieve that everybody that has an opinion different from your own is stupid or less informed than you.. after all Forums are the best places to disscuss different opinions.. but the point I was making is that sooner or later if all music is bootlegged it will kill the music industry... and like Shadow ponted out a lot of people here have computers and internet connections so are not eating dust... and i feel VERY sorry for those people.. and I have met and spoken to people who have nothing... whats my answer.. well i have no answers to world poverty and people less fortunate than myself.. but where possible I have bought cds for these people or made copies....    I also think its a little presumptuous of you to say that all Vacuum fans are kids.. most of the fans I know are indeed dults like myself.. and even if they are kids... whats the problem with that.... and as to your answer about mattias new style and would we have bought the new music... I for one YES.. I loved Iccarus but if you read my previous posts you will also have understood that I also preferred the earlier Vacuum style, but we are all entitled to different opinions and I am happy to read yours.. but Less anger and lecture in future please.. as you said there are younger members on this board and lets set them a good example...

david x


_______________________________________
I've said I believe that the world is a ship
and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip
and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away
with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....

30-01-2004 08:10
   
Shadow
7777777
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576
Dear Al-Wizard,

I supposed that in my previous comment Ive made a clear explanation concerning groundless permanent self-justification, which sound from ex-SU fans on buying illegal Vacuum CDs.
I feel a huge shame when I hear such justification from mature and clever man as you are. And I see that I must clear more detailed.
So. The first lets not mention an average salary (and lets not entrust in statistics right here and in this context). People who earn about 40$ per month dont buy computers and dont connect to the Internet. Mostly. And they are not that mass whom our discussion is directed. I know there are some exceptions. But when such an exception meets me, he/she finds a big and sincere support from me (you might guess what I mean since you know who am I).
Meaning above-stated I underline Vacuum fans community consists of people who are not lowest beggars. And as they have aforementioned services and devices they can allow themselves just once in three years to buy a legal Vacuum CD. Just once in several years (Vacuum isnt frequent with releases). Such a seldom purchase hardly will made them go hungry.

But let them More shameful is that permanent self-justification together with declared love. All the time I feel ashamed when I hear from people those self-justification. Theyd better keep silence about poverty if they cant be so loyal fans to buy legal. But no they say in public: I love You (they say him ;-)You). But Im so miserable and Ill pick your pocket. And Youll justify me meaning my love to You.

Yes. David is right we all have no answers to world poverty. And we cant overcome it. Especially with justification of piracy (rather in contrary). But Id prefer being pride and self-respectable and not beg justification if I couldnt buy legal Vacuum CD. I just think its enough to disgrace selves and stop self-justification. It isnt even funny yet.

You (Al-Wizard) say: He is smart enough to realize if he wants to make money he must focus on europian market. And I notice more he was kind enough to state in one of old interviews that same justification for russian fans. But fans took it too ;-) unsophistically and decided that theyve got an indulgence forever.

And to put my ultimate dot on this matter I refer to your statement about kids. Yes a lot of kids are here. But what the example we (adults) can show them if well justify betrayal, pilfering and theft?!

Thats all.

Yours Shadow :-)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

30-01-2004 20:58
   
Toaddy
EV/OLUTIONER
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From: KIEV
Registered: 27-01-2004
Posts: 92
I completely agree with David and Marianna. The piracy is a severe problem for survival of VACUUM. Therefore, the debt everyone present fan of Vacuum is purchase  of legal albums and singles of our favourite Band. As they are let out very seldom.
It is impossible to speak about love to VACUUM and simultaneously to betray it.

Sincerely Yours,

Poline  :smile:


31-01-2004 00:55
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al-wizard
Alco-Vacuumized
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From: Canada
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 167
oh ... guys ... you realy make me smile, you said a lot of nice words and expressions ...  you sound even like heros. But it sounds like "bla bla bla" for me ... unfortunately we are living in a cruel material world, and im sorry for the truth i said before if i hurt you or anybody else, that was exactly my PERSONAL opinion /smile/. By the way im a realy kind and nice but honest person, not gonna eat anybody, especially kids /smile/.

Take care.


31-01-2004 02:16
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al-wizard
Alco-Vacuumized
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From: Canada
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 167
To Shadow: Privet!!!  Ochen rad videt i slyshat tebia, long time no see, how are you, kak ty? U menia v golove melknula razvesti tut besedu s vami, da chestno govoriu, net zdorovja boltat po pustiakam a teper tem bolee s toboj ne sobirajus dazhe sporit! Srazu zdajus! a to kaneshna rasskazal by kak ja v svojej zhuzni videl toka odin raz oroginal vacuum CD odolzhiv poslushat u odnoj lady i te byli privezeny premikom iz Shvetsii ... a tak byl schastliv chto voobsche nashel odin kiosk na oboloni gde sluchajno kupil kassetu (dazhe ne cd, ne dumaja original ili chto eto voobsche takoe ... diadia Vasia na babinnike peregnal i spasibo emu, pamiatnik postalit nado bylo) i na tom spasibo tomu kiosku. I chto ja tozhe "informed" na temu: "est li zhizn na Marse", no toka nikogda tam ne byl i ne znaju kak tam dyshitsa practicheski ... i mnogo mnogo mnogo, No ja rad tebia videt i slyshat, nado budet kak-to poobschatsa, zavedi sebe chto nibut tipa ICQ ili MSN (Windows Messanger - voobsche klassnaja shtuka i video i audio boltat mozhna i mp3 peresylat s fotkami!!! Ja v shoke ot etoj tehnologii!)
Nu do vstrechi, rad byl tebia videt (slyshat naverna tochnee)!
Best regards and deep respect, Al-wizard.


31-01-2004 03:15
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nukleopatra
The Sacred One
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From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
Hi al-wizard, Nobody here doubts for a second that you are not a nice person and nobody here from what I can read is attacking you.. like you we are just expressing our opiniions, like you our PERSONAL opinions.. nothing more, nothing less... that is what this forum is for and I hope you will continue to post your own opinions.. thats what freedom of speech is all about...  Great to hear from you.

David
x


_______________________________________
I've said I believe that the world is a ship
and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip
and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away
with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....

31-01-2004 05:41
   
Ann
EV/OLUTIONER

From: Ukraine, KieV/
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 37
. , Vacuum. : . Vacuuma . , , Vacuum . - : . .
, , , .


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Green biosphere clean biosphere

31-01-2004 14:14
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Marina
Shining Vacuumist

From: Moscow
Registered: 23-01-2004
Posts: 677
, . , . ...
. , !!


31-01-2004 14:49
   
Shadow
7777777
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576

al-wizard wrote:

you sound even like heros...
unfortunately we are living in a cruel material world...


Theres nothing heroical in our speeches about piracy. Its just the matter of honour. I hardly could respect myself if Id keep silence on this topic being afraid of anyones sneers or even attacks :-)
And I guess from long ago that we live in a cruel world ;-)  So, Im not flattering my pride with hopes that my humble couple of ten dollars make Vacuums budget. I just tried to explain that its not so hard to be honest. I just tried to state my point of view to each stable Vacuum fan.

Sincerely yours

p.s. I'll talk to you with pleasure in private if you want. I think we shouldnt overload this topic with our private questions. You can write me :-)

Last edited by Shadow (31-01-2004 22:06)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

31-01-2004 22:03
   
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