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Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527

Ksusha wrote:

Sorry me, what I wrote on russian language in this topic, but  I can say more exactly my opinions  in russian then english language

Dear Ksusha, judging by your registration date and number of posts it seems to me you are successfully expressing your opinions in topics written in Russian language.

So, why dont you give English speaking fans a break in these few topics started in English ?

Why do you try to turn into Russian these few topics started in English?

I really dont know what is it in question : Are you unable to understand that when English speaking fan opens a link on a topic started in English and persistently finds answers in Russian, knowing that the person who post this answer in Russian KNOWS that he cant understand it, then its very insulting, he feels like getting a slap in face ( which is ok, if you like to get that feeling but I really dont  :smile:  )

or Are you just being impudent ?

What is it then, first or second ?

Thanks to Nika for translation  :flower:


_______________________________________
Bring on the clouds
Let the raindance begin

24-03-2005 09:04
   
Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527

Shadow wrote:


Masha wrote:

It's a difficult topic, Shadow...

http://www.upperwood.ru/smiles/pozitiv/457.gif And who promised you easy ways? :winky:

Yeah, you gat it  :smile:  :app:

Shadow wrote:

If to say more serious, I intentionally put difficult questions. Why? To stimulate mental process in our heads.

Of course ! As I said when you start analyzing you never know what will you discover !  :smile:

Shadow wrote:

... and theres nothing left to discuss in easy way.

Oh but we should always find something like that too ... we must joke too  :colpac:

Last edited by Masha (24-03-2005 09:21)


_______________________________________
Bring on the clouds
Let the raindance begin

24-03-2005 09:20
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

Masha wrote:


Ksusha wrote:

Sorry me, what I wrote on russian language in this topic, but  I can say more exactly my opinions  in russian then english language

Dear Ksusha, judging by your registration date and number of posts it seems to me you are successfully expressing your opinions in topics written in Russian language.

So, why dont you give English speaking fans a break in these few topics started in English ?

Why do you try to turn into Russian these few topics started in English?


Dear Masha,
Please don't be that strict and fanatic in this matter. :glare:
There's no sin if one posts in Russian in the topic started in English.
Surely it is good idea to motivate all Foruum members to use English to attract more fans from worldwide to this forum. But please do not forget about people who cannot take part in English-languaged discussions through lack of skills. Is it fair? They enter Russian site with Russian forum and can not take part in most of discussions. All E-speaking fans can take part in other E-speaking forums in any country. Do Russian fans have the same possibility?
So please do not ignore it. By limiting one's liberty of language we can insult theese people as well. Let's be humant, let us be tolerant and loyal to each other.
Thanks to all of you for understanding.


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Heres my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If youre looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

24-03-2005 11:11
   
Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527

The God wrote:


Dear Masha,
Please don't be that strict and fanatic in this matter. :glare:

Well, I'm pretty sick of it ...


There's no sin if one posts in Russian in the topic started in English.

Well, we all saw where that leads English speaking fans we totally excluded from discussions and almost all of them stopped visiting foruum because of that. Wasn't it so ?


But please do not forget about people who cannot take part in English-languaged
discussions through lack of skills. Is it fair? They enter Russian site with Russian forum and can not take part in most of discussions.

There are very much  Russian speaking fans and they are FREE to discuss in topics in Russian language.
There are very little non Russian speaking fans and they should be protected by #14 Rule.


Let's be humant, let us be tolerant and loyal to each other.

Yes, that would be ideal ... As you know I was against dividing of foruum on language basis because I believe in this what you say. But, reality showed it's not possible. It's sad but obviously true. That why I think #14 rule is last chance to bring some things in order and manage to maintain international character of this foruum. I'm afraid that later it could be too late. As I said I'm pretty sick of it all ...


_______________________________________
Bring on the clouds
Let the raindance begin

24-03-2005 14:06
   
Shadow
7777777
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576
To The God and Masha:
People. You are right. Both.
Let me play smth like a rabbi :winky: from that old Yiddish anecdote. When he told to everyone who came to him with complaints about each other, he every time told to each: You are right. And you are right. And you are right as well.

So, you are right, my God :winky: ! We should be more tolerant to each other. I just cant agree when you say: There's no sin if one posts in Russian in the topic started in English. Sure its not a sin from the Church point of view. But we must respect non-Russian-speaking people among us and let them understand what we are talking about. So, I completely agree with Masha, when she claims to delete at the moment the first post in Russian appeared in English started topic. I underline the first post in Russian (then the second one wont appear). Then here will be something tolerant and friendly. She doesnt claim to manage Russian started topics. But English its fair.
I wont write in English in a topic started in Russian. In case if anybody would be interested what there is talking about ask me and Ill translate. The rule is simple and fair just continue topic in that language what it is started in. We see here Italian started topic and nobody claims them to write there in English.
And sure. Some people are too timid to start posting in English. But its not an indulgence for breaking rules and make E-speaking people offended. I think if any person can read in English, so he/she is able to write something clear in English. And here we come to another rule of our forum. Its a rule #10 : The discussion of spelling, punctuation and other mistakes made by posts author is not greeted. We all make mistakes writing our posts (even no matter do we it in English or in Russian). I remind this rule not because we had smth like this. No. I just want to show all timid(in E-writing) people that they must try to participate in English started discussions and not to be afraid of being ridiculed. And as David said in another topic its a great opportunity for all of us to improve our English (if just we aint lazy). When you are not good in smth its really not a sin. But if you are lazy to try to be good

And Masha, your motives in standing up for internationality of our forum are understandable and truly fair. And as you see you have enough support among foruumists including our admin at the head.
I just dont see as necessary to blame Ksusha again and again after her sincere attempt to apologize. Her guilt wasnt so huge. And her ethical mistake wasnt because of impudence. It was just a mistake and didnt mean to offend anybody here. She wasnt insistent in such mistakes. She is a nice and very friendly girl. Im afraid your severe words towards her made her upset and silent in the forum. I think its unfair meaning her try to apologize. I dont want anybody to leave us because of similar misunderstandings.
Please, Masha, grow lenient and lets end discussing LANGUAGE BARRIER matter in the topic dedicated to VACUUM MUSIC STYLE. I just was going to write here my own definition of the style and cant do it right now because I feel grief of misunderstanding here. I feel I must defend somebody and its more important than any definitions.
Dear Masha! Please, say to Ksusha something nice and don't be so severe.
And let's return to VACUUM  MUSIC  STYLE. Ok?  :smile:



Last edited by Shadow (24-03-2005 19:44)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

24-03-2005 19:37
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

Shadow wrote:


And Masha, your motives in standing up for internationality of our forum are understandable and truly fair. And as you see you have enough support among foruumists including our admin at the head.
I just dont see as necessary to blame Ksusha again and again after her sincere attempt to apologize. Her guilt wasnt so huge. And her ethical mistake wasnt because of impudence. It was just a mistake and didnt mean to offend anybody here. She wasnt insistent in such mistakes. She is a nice and very friendly girl. Im afraid your severe words towards her made her upset and silent in the forum. I think its unfair meaning her try to apologize. I dont want anybody to leave us because of similar misunderstandings.

C'mon people! What are you talking about?...
Blame? What is the blame of girl who posted in her native language in the forum located in her native area?
You want to protect E-speaking audience from Russian posts. You consider that it can hurt them as they do not read Russian... Ok, it's correct, good idea! But deleting of Russian posts and limiting language is insulting Russian audience.

Personally I will do my best to post in English as I support the idea of sharing our discussions with our friends worldwide. Vacuum forever! :lovevac:
But I am absolutely sure that it is up to everyone's consciousness to join this idea or not.
If one prefers Russian it is unfair to limit him/her. This forum should unite us, and not to split. It should be for black and white people as well. For males and females. For R-,E-,I-,D-,S-,J-,F-,...-speaking people.

Nika, please think once more what you are doing...

P.S. When I enter off-sites by some of my favourite bands CHARON, ENTWINE, SHAMRAIN (Finnish gothic-metal) :coza: , I do not feel myself insulted when some news are in Finnish. I understand that they are local enough to be spread worldwide. I know that all the important news will be in English.

P.P.S. Should we stop using Ukrainian phrases in Russian topics as well. There are people who do not speak Ukrainian (I know it for sure) and they can be insulted by that...
Where is the limit of this language spliting?!...


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Heres my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If youre looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

25-03-2005 13:46
   
Annette
EV/OLUTIONER
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From: KIEV/
Registered: 30-05-2004
Posts: 313
2Shadow I think it could be called just "Vacuum" :-)
I wonder, what Mattias will answer on the same question on "vacuum-people" :unsure:


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We travel different roads, but we are still the same

25-03-2005 13:59
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Vacuum Music
Zvirushko
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From: C:\WINDOWS
Registered: 11-01-2004
Posts: 558
Masha, The God, I think you should move your discussion to the topic "In English, please", as here it's offtopic. I would be glad to answer The God's last message "Think, what you are doing, Nika", but not under "Vacuum style" topic title.  :flower:
----
Annette, a good idea:

I think it could be called just "Vacuum"

I know, there's a music style called "Space", and now we have just opened its derivative style - "Vacuum".
:rolleyes:


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25-03-2005 15:31
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Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527

Shadow wrote:


So, I completely agree with Masha, when she claims to delete at the moment the first post in Russian appeared in English started topic. I underline the first post in Russian (then the second one wont appear).


Exactly Shadow. Remember how necessity made us add Foruum Rules in the first place. And it worked ... Foruum survived that first crisis because our Admin carried out these Rules in practice. It should be done now too.

She doesnt claim to manage Russian started topics. But English its fair.


Yes, some tend to forget that.

I just dont see as necessary to blame Ksusha again and again after her sincere attempt to apologize. ]

Well, it was a last straw as I said Im sick of it   and then I become mad !  :glare:

Dear Masha! Please, say to Ksusha something nice and don't be so severe.

Ok, I have nothing against her personally of course I just wanted to say it loud and clear.

to Ksusha : Dear Ksusha, dont take this personally please, if that what Shadow says is true that it was a mistake without bad intention, and that you will have in mind #14 rule from now on, then there is no reason for you to feel upset about it. Hey, people sometimes say things louder in their own family and then they all sit together at the same table again isnt it so? :smile:   and we are all one big Vacuum family please, do come. If you would like to exchange opinions with English speaking fans it doesnt matter if your English maybe isnt so good - you are welcome!  :heart:  , and if you dont, then you do it in Russian language topics with people who understand your language... Its simple and it's plain, why should we complain  :winky:


Please, Masha, grow lenient and lets end discussing LANGUAGE BARRIER matter in the topic dedicated to VACUUM MUSIC STYLE.

I hope I've just done that  :winky:

Last edited by Masha (25-03-2005 15:53)


_______________________________________
Bring on the clouds
Let the raindance begin

25-03-2005 15:51
   
Ksusha
Shining Vacuumist
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From: Suomi
Registered: 22-12-2004
Posts: 692

Masha wrote:


to Ksusha : Dear Ksusha, dont take this personally please, if that what Shadow says is true that it was a mistake without bad intention, and that you will have in mind #14 rule from now on, then there is no reason for you to feel upset about it. Hey, people sometimes say things louder in their own family and then they all sit together at the same table again isnt it so? :smile:   and we are all one big Vacuum family please, do come. If you would like to exchange opinions with English speaking fans it doesnt matter if your English maybe isnt so good - you are welcome!  :heart:  , and if you dont, then you do it in Russian language topics with people who understand your language... Its simple and it's plain, why should we complain  :winky:


Sorry, but I didn't know this rule, and I will try to write now in English
And what about style? May be some people have idea about style each song in the lastest album Vacuum


_______________________________________
No matter what it takes
No matter what you say

25-03-2005 15:58
   
Shadow
7777777
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576


I would call this style psychedelic synth-pop, meaning all that interesting sounds and the total mood of the album.
(In direct translation from greek psychedelic means something, which enlightens spirits. For Russians: .)



Last edited by Shadow (27-03-2005 13:39)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

27-03-2005 13:37
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

Shadow wrote:

http://www.smailiki.nm.ru/kur/smokin.gif

I would call this style psychedelic synth-pop, meaning all that interesting sounds and the total mood of the album.
(In direct translation from greek psychedelic means something, which enlightens spirits. For Russians: .)

http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/smiles/personal/pooh.gif

Best psychedelic guys ever were Buddha and Lucifer... :winky:


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Heres my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If youre looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

28-03-2005 03:05
   
Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527
I remember the word psychedelic only in context of psychedelic drugs   :hmm:   It seems to me that word has rather negative sound ... Did you watch movie Adaptation with Meryl Streep and Nicholas Cage ? Fabulous movie   an example about the nature of psychedelic enlightment  ... True change (adaptation-enlightment) can come out only from inside (Cage) , not from outside(Streep) although they were both intellectuals longing for adaptation  and ... I think that in the music of new Vacuum there are spiritual, religious fermentings that came from inside and were born out of  normal life experiences ...

_______________________________________
Bring on the clouds
Let the raindance begin

28-03-2005 03:07
   
Shadow
7777777
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576

The God wrote:

Best psychedelic guys ever were Buddha and Lucifer... :winky:


:winky:  So, don't you see in discussed style exactly a perfect "symbiosis" of both?

Masha, I will answer you later. Gotta go now. Sorry.



Last edited by Shadow (28-03-2005 06:05)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

28-03-2005 06:02
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007
Shadow, this swinging icon is perfect. Exactly what I mean.
Current V//-lyrics are full of dark and sacred images as well. They are very polar.


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Heres my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If youre looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

28-03-2005 07:14
   
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