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Vacuum Music Foruum » Vacuum discussion » Philosophical topic… Just thought…  
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Annette
EV/OLUTIONER
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From: KIEV/
Registered: 30-05-2004
Posts: 313
Hello dear Vacuumists! 
Some days before I listened to radio & found a song of Nick Cave & Kylie Minogue “Where the wild roses grow”. Suddenly I thought about the phrase from the song “The beauty must die”. “Death” and “beauty” – something related to Vacuum…. So what do you think about this two phrases: “We’re dead – it’s beautiful” and “The beauty must die”? Are their meaning similar or opposite? Both of them are quite dark but which one is more pessimistic?


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11-06-2005 02:20
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Marina
Shining Vacuumist

From: Moscow
Registered: 23-01-2004
Posts: 677
Each time me is pleased with depth of questions which set admirers of Vacuum. Well, my opinion. I think, that one phrase this consequence another. First to whom that in a head comes an idea“The beauty must die”. And it decides to execute this verdict. And then already-“We’re dead – it’s beautiful”. And such fatal philosopher now enjoys that has turned out.

11-06-2005 06:41
   
Satellite
that's me in the corner
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From: around
Registered: 01-04-2004
Posts: 121
Take a listen to HIM :) Their music is dark enough and mostly about love, beauty and death. You will find there a lot of interesting moments related to the subj.

P.S. I don't think that the beauty must die.


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11-06-2005 13:37
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Cecilia
Sacred Vacuumist
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From: Italy
Registered: 30-03-2005
Posts: 185
Well, the sentence "beauty must die" makes me think to the idea of beauty as an ephemeral thing... as flowers that wither. It's quite a Japanese concept :happy:

The other phrase - "We're dead, it's beautiful" makes me think of completely different things... firstly that is we're dead, we are free of the chains that tie us in this world, and so, if we're dead, it would be like if we're dreaming... yes, something like the situation of a dream.


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12-06-2005 04:50
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Honey_R
High Vacuumist
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From: Evergreen island
Registered: 23-02-2005
Posts: 25
To my mind these phrases are incomparable. I know this song of Nick Cave and like it a lot, but these phrases have quite different sense. IMHO a phrase of Vacuum is optimistic as well, instead of Nick Cave's phrase witch is as always painted in dark tone.

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12-06-2005 11:52
   
The Terminator
Sacred Vacuumist
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From: the nearest future
Registered: 11-05-2005
Posts: 124
Welll, Nick Cave is talent person and good singer. On his album "Murder Ballads" is too many good things.

These phrases of course, are completely various, though are told by similar words ... " And I kiss her goodbye said:All the beauty must die "   this phrase is very strong and I  agree with it.
But “ We're dead - it's beautiful ”... I can tell nothing about this phrase, I can't understand it


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13-06-2005 03:05
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007
Well, for me the phrase #the beauty must die" means one clear thing.
Everything beautiful is not eternal. Everything beautiful finally dies. Everything we love in this life dies. And we should remember it and love it every moment of our lifes. To enjoy every moment of our lifes. Remember about death. Live with this understanding and pain. But enjoy the life itself and with everything you love. Untill it's not too late...


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If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
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If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

13-06-2005 03:14
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

Satellite wrote:

Take a listen to HIM :) Their music is dark enough and mostly about love, beauty and death. You will find there a lot of interesting moments related to the subj.

P.S. I don't think that the beauty must die.


Satallite, I do not agree about HIM.
Yes, "we're dead, it's beautiful" is a typical line for HIM. That was my top of mind reaction to this title. But still it has very different content. Sweet lyrics by HIM about love and death do not have that depth. With all my respect to Ville Valo and his music.


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If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

13-06-2005 03:23
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

The Terminator wrote:

But “ We're dead - it's beautiful ”... I can tell nothing about this phrase, I can't understand it

Termy, it is equal to "We're switched of and dismantled - it's beautiful"  :biggrin:  :wink: 
Better now?


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

13-06-2005 03:28
   
The Terminator
Sacred Vacuumist
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From: the nearest future
Registered: 11-05-2005
Posts: 124
Yes, The God, it's better. And understandble for me :biggrin:  :cool:
but I don't want to be deismantled :cool:


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13-06-2005 05:52
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

The Terminator wrote:

Yes, The God, it's better. And understandble for me :biggrin:  :cool:
but I don't want to be deismantled :cool:

Nobody wants. But it's a life. Entropy does not spare anyone. Neither humans nor robots. :death:
Even gods are victims of it. Gods can not die, can not be dismantled. But gods can be forsaken. :angel:

BTW, it was exactly the fear of death, that has turned people to religion. Made them to create it. As a way to find a hope and faith.
So, Terminator, if you do not want to be dismantled, it can become your obsession  :weird: , you can have a risk of getting too religious... :smile:

Last edited by The God (13-06-2005 08:41)


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

13-06-2005 08:39
   
Cecilia
Sacred Vacuumist
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From: Italy
Registered: 30-03-2005
Posts: 185

The God wrote:

Gods can not die, can not be dismantled.


Well, in Wagner's opinion gods can die and they do in the end of Gotterdammerung:rip:

The God, I like very much your traslation of "we're dead, it's beautiful" as "We're switched of and dismantled - it's beautiful"  :claps:


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I was born king and hero, I have seen more than most :king:

13-06-2005 09:34
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The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

Masha wrote:

Religion as a consequence of fear of death ... it's amazing what a stupidities can be read here ...

:sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:

Dear Masha,
As I have already told you, I do not want to continue ANY discussions with you trough your boorish behaviour lately and so far.
And my posts are for everyone in this foruum but you.
So once again I am asking you not to reply and not to comment my messages.
As I do not comment any foolish thing I see in your ones.
Thank you in advance.
My best regards,
The God


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

13-06-2005 10:44
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

Cecilia wrote:


The God wrote:

Gods can not die, can not be dismantled.


Well, in Wagner's opinion gods can die and they do in the end of Gotterdammerung:rip:

The God, I like very much your traslation of "we're dead, it's beautiful" as "We're switched of and dismantled - it's beautiful"  :claps:


Well, I am not sure that Wagner was 100% right. It is rather allegorical. Gods are immortal, in most of religions when they are killed they reborn in other hypostasis or smth like that. Can you give me any example of any god who was really killed once and forever and disappeared completely? Even from people memory?
But to be forsaken means to be dead for any god. E.g. Prometheus was sentenced and has fallen into Oblivion for his betrayal. He was alive as he was eternal, but people have forgotten him...

Regarding "We're switched of and dismantled" - it is not a translation. It is rather translation to "machine code".
As I perceive this refrain as allegorical. For me it is not about death but about end of some relations between people and begining of freedom and smth new. But how can I explain it to the machine?... :winky:
Even to such highest machine as our friend The Terminator. It's about human feelings. Very irrational human feelings.


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

13-06-2005 10:58
   
Lamia
Extreme Vacuumist
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From: IMAX
Registered: 19-04-2005
Posts: 75
I really liked how phrase “we’re dead – it’s beautiful” fit into the “Something evil I love (dead and beautiful)” by The God. I didn’t like this phrase in “Dead”, it didn’t make sense to me and didn’t seem to fit in. For me, this phrase signifies a new beginning. People transcended into the next plane and look back and forward at the same time. They see that everything is as it should be, and it’s beautiful. For me, this phrase carries light and new promise (or promise of new). Probably, this is not how Vacuum intended it, because I really don’t understand it and don’t like it in “Dead”.

About “all beauty must die”, it took some time for me to remember this song. I like it, but I never thought too much about it. I guess I just see a very disturbed psychologically, maybe even ill, person saying that. It may make sense in interpretation “all that has a beginning, has an end”, but I, personally, only see pain or umbrage that longs for some revenge . Overall, I see it as something dark and evil.

Last edited by Lamia (13-06-2005 12:52)


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13-06-2005 12:51
   
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