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Brute
Gillespie
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From: Silent Hill
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 757
...Momento mori...

2Masha… “That's because there is nothing much to understand in it” – it’s only your opinion… and I think that you shouldn’t be so categorical…

Who wants to seperate
The world we know from our beliefs
And who sees only black and white
Distinguish loss from sacrifice
Some day we may come to peace
With the world within ourselves


IMHO, in phrase “we’re dead – it’s beautiful” there are a lot to understand, ‘cos it reflects point of view of different philosophical and religion streams…
I don’t think that we should separate that line from other text of song… but if you’ve already made it…
For me live – is period of reformatory, it’s that cost which we are paying for our sins and sins of our parents. It’s the time for our soul to evolve, to understand, to learn, to stand the ordeal of destiny… And death – it’s the finish of life-time marathon, it’s the line, crossing which we can see what’ve we learned, and what we have to learn more, what are the results of our live, like an autumn, when we’re harvesting and pluses and minuses… then comes the winter of out-world waiting and birth-period of spring… and then life repeats again and again till then when your soul is ready to enter the gates of paradise.     
So, I count “death” as a beautiful (but, yes, painful ‘cos my own stupidity) phenomenon of my existence period.


_______________________________________
Do you know that we will judge angles?
Do you know that the saints will judge the world?
Corinthians 6:2-3
(C)Silent Hill

13-06-2005 17:54
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Brute
Gillespie
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From: Silent Hill
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 757

Masha wrote:


I mean that what you wrote is also only yours (I hope) opinion ...


Brute wrote:


IMHO
, in phrase “we’re dead – it’s beautiful”...


Sometimes, it seems that people are trying to set their thought as absolute truth without any other possible variants... that's why I prefer to sign my posts as "IMHO"*

*IMHO - In my humble opinion.

Last edited by Brute (14-06-2005 02:15)


_______________________________________
Do you know that we will judge angles?
Do you know that the saints will judge the world?
Corinthians 6:2-3
(C)Silent Hill

14-06-2005 02:13
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The Terminator
Sacred Vacuumist
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From: the nearest future
Registered: 11-05-2005
Posts: 124

The God wrote:

So, Terminator, if you do not want to be dismantled, it can become your obsession  :weird: , you can have a risk of getting too religious... :smile:


No, Goddy, I don't afraid to be destroyed

But in me there is the program of self-preservation allowing me to risk by myself is limited, my mission is not executed yet


_______________________________________
The father of machines

14-06-2005 03:58
   
The Terminator
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From: the nearest future
Registered: 11-05-2005
Posts: 124

Masha wrote:

Religion as a consequence of fear of death ... it's amazing what a stupidities can be read here ...

:sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:  :sick:


Masha, I don't believe in any religions

I saw religions like a philosophical and consolatory fairytales for people


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The father of machines

14-06-2005 04:02
   
The Terminator
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From: the nearest future
Registered: 11-05-2005
Posts: 124

The God wrote:


Can you give me any example of any god who was really killed once and forever and disappeared completely?


And how about Crones which has been killed byhis own son Zevs, by  the ancient greek mythology?

not in the people's memory, of course


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The father of machines

14-06-2005 04:11
   
The Terminator
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From: the nearest future
Registered: 11-05-2005
Posts: 124

Masha wrote:



Just some "human" illusions ... you aren't missing much, believe me  :winky:


Yes, I understand, Masha, thank you


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The father of machines

14-06-2005 04:34
   
The Terminator
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From: the nearest future
Registered: 11-05-2005
Posts: 124

Lamia wrote:

“all that has a beginning, has an end”, but I, personally, only see pain or umbrage that longs for some revenge . Overall, I see it as something dark and evil.


Nik Cave  also has got a song from the same album. It calls " Death Is Not The End ". It about that after death of suffering human do not come to an end but only begin.
And it is not understandble for me too


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The father of machines

14-06-2005 04:52
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

Brute wrote:


that's why I prefer to sign my posts as "IMHO"*

*IMHO - In my humble opinion.

a-ha, when I add IMHO it means In My Holy Opinion... :angel:
:biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

14-06-2005 06:42
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

The Terminator wrote:


Nik Cave  also has got a song from the same album. It calls " Death Is Not The End ". It about that after death of suffering human do not come to an end but only begin.
And it is not understandble for me too

It's easy. Life after death is a transformation of you into smth else. Like when you're dismantled someone takes parts of you and makes a blender or vacuum-cleaner. You are dead but you continue living as smth else. Quite a simple concept, isn't it? :winky:


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

14-06-2005 06:52
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

The Terminator wrote:


The God wrote:


Can you give me any example of any god who was really killed once and forever and disappeared completely?


And how about Crones which has been killed byhis own son Zevs, by  the ancient greek mythology?

not in the people's memory, of course

Crones have emasculated and overthrowned his farther - Uranium, the titan. After becoming a superior deity in antiqu pantheon, he was also emasculated and overthrowned by his only son Zenon.
Zenon has imprisoned all the old deities/titans in Tartar for eternity.
Crones (being a god of fertility) has transformed to Chronos - a god of time.

So, Terminator, who can be more eternall and immortal than god of time???

And do not forget that some ancient gods still live in men's memory even if they are killed according to legends.


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

14-06-2005 07:03
   
The Terminator
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From: the nearest future
Registered: 11-05-2005
Posts: 124
Yes, The God, I agree with you at all now, my friend.

I know better than someone else what means Time


_______________________________________
The father of machines

14-06-2005 07:18
   
Cecilia
Sacred Vacuumist
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From: Italy
Registered: 30-03-2005
Posts: 185

The God wrote:

Well, I am not sure that Wagner was 100% right. It is rather allegorical. Gods are immortal, in most of religions when they are killed they reborn in other hypostasis or smth like that. Can you give me any example of any god who was really killed once and forever and disappeared completely? Even from people memory?
But to be forsaken means to be dead for any god. E.g. Prometheus was sentenced and has fallen into Oblivion for his betrayal. He was alive as he was eternal, but people have forgotten him...

Regarding "We're switched of and dismantled" - it is not a translation. It is rather translation to "machine code".
As I perceive this refrain as allegorical. For me it is not about death but about end of some relations between people and begining of freedom and smth new. But how can I explain it to the machine?... :winky:
Even to such highest machine as our friend The Terminator. It's about human feelings. Very irrational human feelings.


My dear God, of course I was joking! I reported Wagner's thought only as a matter of fact, not as something I agree with or I believe in. Obviously in most religions gods don't die - or if they die it's only to resurrect (as in Christian religion). But I didn't and I don't want to start a religious debate - I was only reporting a thing.

Moreover I agree with you about the meaning of "We're dead, it's beautiful". I figure it almost like the sensation of a snake changing his skin. We're dead - something is passed, or is finished. Now I feel free. That's how I imagine it :biggrin:


_______________________________________
I was born king and hero, I have seen more than most :king:

14-06-2005 15:41
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David Haglund
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From: Sweden
Registered: 04-03-2004
Posts: 133

Cecilia wrote:


Moreover I agree with you about the meaning of "We're dead, it's beautiful". I figure it almost like the sensation of a snake changing his skin. We're dead - something is passed, or is finished. Now I feel free. That's how I imagine it


I don't mean to sound lika a dirty old man, but had anyone considered that this may refer to "the little death" ("le petit mort")? The sexual orgasm is also a sort of transcendence. I know it doesn't quite match up with all of the lyrics, but it makes for a not so dark image of the song.

But my take is this:
Mattias says that his lover is "dead" to him. He renounces her completely. (Doesn't mean that he has physically killed her though.) He has let her go completely, she's nothing but a torn up picture in his head. And that is good.

As for the chorus, it may be that he feels dead inside, or that she has completely renounced him too (made him "dead"). Anyway, this breakup seems to be a positive thing, since it is "beautiful". Some people thrive on feelings of melancholy (it was very common in the Romantic era of the 1700-1800s), or maybe it paved way for a new start (like in the song "Starting").

But this is just my interpretation of course. The truth is probably that most songwriters start with a catchy phrase or two and build a song around that.


_______________________________________
Cut off my nose to spite my face

15-06-2005 07:07
   
Ghriska
Vacuumized

Registered: 15-06-2005
Posts: 5
"So what do you think about this two phrases: “We’re dead – it’s beautiful” and “The beauty must die”? Are their meaning similar or opposite? Both of them are quite dark but which one is more pessimistic?"

Well, my view of these:

"The beauty must die" is a terribly pessimistic view of life. It reflects the ending of things and the view that value of beauty, or similar things one appreciates and love, will dwindle down. Its about fear that things will end, I don't believe in it.

"We're dead - it's beautiful" is from a lovers point of view; and to simplify, I think this sentences as " To be dead is also beautiful". To me this means that  beautiful things remain beautiful even when no one is left to appreciate them, and when even they are gone, they once were and will be again. Not a dark thought at all, a beautiful one.


15-06-2005 09:18
   
The God
Vacuumiracle
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From: Heaven
Registered: 22-06-2004
Posts: 1007

David Haglund wrote:


But my take is this:
Mattias says that his lover is "dead" to him. He renounces her completely. (Doesn't mean that he has physically killed her though.) He has let her go completely, she's nothing but a torn up picture in his head. And that is good.

As for the chorus, it may be that he feels dead inside, or that she has completely renounced him too (made him "dead"). Anyway, this breakup seems to be a positive thing, since it is "beautiful". Some people thrive on feelings of melancholy (it was very common in the Romantic era of the 1700-1800s), or maybe it paved way for a new start (like in the song "Starting").

But this is just my interpretation of course. The truth is probably that most songwriters start with a catchy phrase or two and build a song around that.

David, absolutely agree with you


_______________________________________
If you want to burn the witches - Here I am
If you want to throw the stone - Here’s my face
If you want to pass the judgment - Break my neck
If you’re looking for a justice - Cuff my hands

15-06-2005 10:31
   
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