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Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527

Shadow wrote:

There are many people who love the essence of previous Vacuum music and at the same time dont blame the so-called neo-Vacuum Etc Just understanding that everything changes everywhere everytime
And one point I must remind you all again. We didnt listen the finalized promised album. We dont know what will be all the songs and how will they sound. Even several songs which were mentioned by people who had an opportunity to listen them are not the entire album. Maybe there will be songs, which might become your adorable songs I dont know But you dont know either. And with this you bring your final verdict in. Is it reasonable?




Well  ... I agree with you in this. You said it nicely  :smile:


P.S. to X-lady N :  You've taken the words out of my mouth again. I agree completely !


_______________________________________
Bring on the clouds
Let the raindance begin

19-04-2004 07:43
   
Toaddy
EV/OLUTIONER
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From: KIEV
Registered: 27-01-2004
Posts: 92
To Aniv: Large thanks to you for kind words and such high estimation of my messages!

To Mascha: Im the fan of Vacuum since 1998, have being that one till today. Ive got all the legal Vacuum albums and almost all the singles. I love the songs of an old Vacuum especially Science of the Sacred, Atlas Shrugged, Sign on the Skyline, Chant like a Mantra, Ulysses, Icaros and many others. I love ALL Vacuum songs, both the old either the new ones. An old Vacuum will stay forever like the classic, it hasnt gone its still with us.
Bard said himself that he was an egoist, didnt believe in love. The life philosophy of Bard is clearly shown in the book Netocracy. Having read his book one can say he doesnt believe in a God as well. Though, of cause, he wrote a lot of great songs, so I respect him a lot for this. Bard is a very talented composer, a good sociologist and economist. Let God give him happiness and success with his new book The Global Imperia and with BWO.
Of cause the new Vacuum differs from the old one, but it still remains VACUUM. More over not only Bard found this wonderful name for the band, but Wollbeck also. They created this project together, and they wrote all the songs together as well. And Wollbeck stays in Vacuum till today, but he didnt leave with Bard. I guess thats why Bard couldnt close the project, or to take away the name and the right for the songs performance. New Vacuum consists of two equal members, of two creative units, Wollbeck and Lindblom, and it expresses the philosophy and the point of view on life of both of them. Vacuum is an alive, developing being, it cant stay the same all the time, and it has to change, to go alone with the evolution. Stagnation is the death, Evolution is the life.
   
To X-lady N: Im sorry for my message being too long. I just tried to retell shortly the essence of my article. :smile:
A human love between a man and a woman is the part of the Divine Love, if its a real love, but not the sexual instinct or the sense of property. A real human love is the projection of the Universal Love into our visible world. There is no place for the jealousy in a real human love. Love is all-forgiveness and sacrifice, as I wrote before. Its the total trust. And it seems to me that there is such Love in a song Fools Like Me. This song is extremely pure and light. I dont agree that the music of a new Vacuum is less melodic and harmonious than Bards music. And its much more sincere, romantic and dramatic. There is no pessimism, tiredness or disappointment in it. Though there is a suffering in it, but all of us are passing thought this. A man discovers the true life values through the sufferings. And we have to find a joy in everything, in every minute of our life, a joy from the understanding of our existence in a God. In the new Vacuums music there is an appeal for changing, for a spiritual Evolution. It brings the Pass. The Pass from the ignorance and darkness to the Divine Light.  We just have to feel it. They say that the true Teacher will not look from up to down at the ignorant, lost in the darkness man staying on his knees on the solid ground, Teacher will not feel proud according to him, but He will come down to His knees next to this man, and He will arise with him together supporting him. To my mind the video Fools is absolutely genius. Its simple, without anything unnecessary like Tarkovskys films. The image of Mattias on the cloth, his face and hands are shining from the inside.  This is the Light in the darkness. The reflected Divine Light is on the waved cloth. All of us are the ripples, fluctuations on the physical Vacuums surface. A great conception. All of us are the reflection of the God in the material world. And all of us have His Light inside. And we have to see this Divine Light inside of us and other people. And after having seen It, we have to begin to change in a spiritual way.
   
To nukleopatra: I completely agree with you and admire you. You are a real Vacuum Fan. A Fan of the alive Vacuum. MANY THANKS!!!

I wish to all of You INFINITE DIVINE LOVE!!!

  :heart:


19-04-2004 12:46
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Toaddy
EV/OLUTIONER
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From: KIEV
Registered: 27-01-2004
Posts: 92
Dear Simargl, but there werent such words as  God, Universal Mind, Great Breathing, Spiritual schools, Conscious Love, Eternal Divine Energy in the old Vacuums lyrics. If you dont want to discuss here such statements like God and Love so its your right. I respect this right.
You can not to accept my theory as well. You said that the theory written in my article was only my point of view. This is not like that because there are a lot of quotations of the well known scientists and philosophers who think the same way. I tried to be objective in my article, understanding the great responsibility of the things I was writing about. Scientists-physicians helped me with it also I had learnt a lot of literature on this issue. Though nobody knows the Truth but only God does, and this point of view reflects the ideas of today science. That thing we used to call emptiness is far from being empty. More over nothing exists except this Absolute Emptiness, Vacuum. All alive beings are the manifestations of Vacuum. Im sorry for repeat it again but its really true. Famous scientists have come to this conclusions leading by their new theories, discovering.  Though the physicians dont know for sure what is Vacuum and what is its structure, because the Object of their research is so inconceivable.  But You have the right of cause to keep your own point of view on this subject.
Thank You for remembering me an important commandment Don't make an Idol. I havent forgotten about it. And Im trying to hold on this commandment. Mattias forgives everyone, and this is what it is. To my mind it can be seen from his actions and treatment of others. Mattias doesnt keep any evil for the people that have offended him. And I cant understand why many people dont notice this.
You say that new Vacuum has much less fans and that it is going to be the end, but I really dont see this. And how can one judge about this without even having heard the new album? Here I completely agree with Shadow, David and Aniv.
Also You say that TOO MANY PEOPLE, who DON'T NEED such evolution at all. But than I really dont understand what these people really need. If they want the old Vacuum to come back, so likely to be impossible. Bard now is about writing scientific books and his new project BWO. He has now other ideas and he isnt likely to come back to Vacuum. Generally those who loved old Vacuum can become the fans of BWO. There is Bard and Marina there, and its structure is very similar to the old Vacuum: three people, two men and one woman, two keyboard players and one vocalist, and the blond one. :biggrin:  Here you are, just the name of the new project is other. Im in doubt whether Bard wants to take away the name Vacuum from Wollbeck and Lindblom and give it to his own project now. How can he express then the philosophical statement of Gilles Deleuze Bodies Without Organs, which is on his mind now. :smile:  :wink:
You say Mattias is killing his LAST fans. But Mattias doesnt kill anybody, he is absolutely unable to do this, he is a pacifist.:smile: He is just doing sincerely the things that he can do.  He writes such songs that are spreading from his heart, the sincere ones. He cant write the music and the lyrics as Bard used to do, he just feels everything in his own way. Its impossible to enforce Mattias to write the old Vacuum music.
Many people on this Foruum want Mattias and Anders to take away the name Vacuum and to give other name to their band, in order to not to profane the memory about old Vacuum. But the killing of a new Vacuum will not give back the old Bards Vacuum! Then only one action will have to be taken: to make the great funerals for the band Vacuum, to build the memorial stone, to put the flowers upon and regularly go to this tomb crying (The necrophilia might to be seen.:wink: ) But is this a good solution?!!! ( :rip: ?!!!) Really "It's sad, so sad, it's so sad sad situation".
But will this be a better way to let Vacuum live with a new quality, let it develop for the joy of those who stays its fans, and for those who just is opening this music for themselves. And for those people who cant or just dont want to perceive the music of a new Vacuum I could advice only one thing: to keep on listening to the old Vacuum albums (they are classic already and will be forever) and to find a music for the pleasure of their hearts, there are so many musical bands in the world.
And the last thing: you are right THERE'S NO SO-CALLED REALITY. There is AN IDEA. But this Idea is the Idea of a God. This Idea is God :smile:  Im sorry for my coming into the philosophy again.  :smile:  I am very sorry for my very loooooong theory!!! :smile:
Im sorry once more! Im tired from this endless discussion and hope to leave for some rest.  :smile: Thankx to everybody for the attention!!! MANY THANKS for the support Shadow, David (Nucleaopatra) and Aniv!!!!  And LARGE THANK by X-lady N and Masha!!! :heart:


With Love and Respect, :heart:
Sincerely Yours,

Toaddy
:heart:


19-04-2004 12:57
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Simargl
ain't
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From: 78-RUS
Registered: 07-04-2004
Posts: 31
Tired-tired-tired. :biggrin:

You can love neo-Vacuum if you want to. "Because you have to make this life livable" (C) DM.
You can name regress with a new word - "evolution" and play the words as you wish because of total meaningless of any words.
You should not notice the complete level-down of music and lyrics.

But the "Dance On Own Corpse" was started. Too few step from Alla Borisovna's state - keeping yourself alive using your vynil past. The Cheapest than the cheap method.

"I was fan of Vacuum since '98 till now". Huh! Lies! You all were fans of Mattias not fans of Vacuum since '98.

No reason to continue to discuss anything with Mattias fans, cause it would be stupid - Mattias did not become any worse since'98, but Vacuum did.

BUT: It is great that I have met people who thinks as I do.

:vlogo: : Hear the roaring sound?
:music: : Uh-oh. Nope.

Simargl was here.  :fu:


19-04-2004 16:31
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nukleopatra
The Sacred One
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From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
Great Post Toady   and always a pleasure to read, I'm always amazed at how some of you non english speaking fans can express yourselves so well in English..it puts me to shame here on a russian site..

David x :lovevac:


_______________________________________
I've said I believe that the world is a ship
and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip
and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away
with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....

19-04-2004 17:28
   
Toaddy
EV/OLUTIONER
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From: KIEV
Registered: 27-01-2004
Posts: 92
MANY THANKS to You, David for your kind, warm words!!!!!  :blush:
I am very grateful for the huge help with the English to my best Friend Sveta Pleskachova!!!!!!! :heart:
THANK YOU!!!!!! :heart:

From Love and Respect, :heart:
Sincerely Yours,

Toaddy
:lovevac:


19-04-2004 18:07
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al-wizard
Alco-Vacuumized
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From: Canada
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 167
Great message Simargl!!! :claps:
I always surprised how can you put so much sense and meaning in just a few sentences without typing huge posts that almost nobody is able to read, they looks like creative school compositions. :winky:
Especially the most difficult to read some scientific articles about the meaning of word "vacuum", how cares? Personally I don't. I prefer "vacuum-music", exactly vacuum music, actually this site was started 3 years ago and dedicated to (exactly) vacuum music. I guess it must be renamed soon in Mattias-music.com :claps: Look, i don't say it's bad, it's good.
When i started this topik i didn't even suspect that it's gonna be so popular theme to discuss about. ... so many posts..., so many peaple comes here every day!!!! Im pleased!!!:rolleyes: Also it's interesting to read different opinions and I even realized much more then I could say ... cool cool!!! Keep going vacuum fans, vacuum will alweys alive (at least) in our hearts. But let's wish Mattias all the best in his new independent creative activity and success for his upcoming album. It must be the really best CD of Mattias. At least I really hope it will be so. :ibreathe:


19-04-2004 21:14
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al-wizard
Alco-Vacuumized
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From: Canada
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 167
ok guys! One more funny stuff which came to my mind just a second ago! :dad:
I suggest to use one more term! We have "old vacuum" "new vacuum" (or neo vacuum), but I would suggest "MIDDLE VACUUM" i would say it starte from Icaros, where nobody could recognize Mattias'es voice. I remember David's web ring and the first time i heard words: "boys band" it was there. So it started from Icaros and the last "middle vacuum" song by my opinion was "Strting". Then It became total electronical mixing experement of Mattias.
What would you say about this? :biggrin:


19-04-2004 21:32
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Shadow
7777777
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576
Simargl calls not Vacuum fans but Mattias fans everybody who doesnt blame that Vacuum what we can see now.
Its indeed senseless to continue entering into polemics since he rejects each reasonable argument and leads to splitting into parties. Moreover here is visible a tendence to take an advantage of such splitting. Its not good.
When somebody stings concerning anyones long posts or any kind of other work done for this site, when he makes conclusions of how many people are able to read those posts or articles, when someone eulogizes someone's excrement (and moreover refers it to discussed music) I think its too much. Its gone far away from clear thinking and conscience. You must respect what people do for you. And some of last posts show brightly how deeply some of you disrespect everything, which is done by others (obviously these persons consider as deserving only things done by themselves and by their sacred cow).
Actually, Id suggest our dear admin to close this topic since because of lack of real and reasonable arguments some people started to show disrespect to others works and since it reeks here
Excuse me all non-speaking Russian visitors of this page, but I have to write several words in Russian (if anybody wants to learn what I'm saying, ask somebody to translate).
, . , . , ? :wall:
!

Last edited by Shadow (20-04-2004 19:35)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

20-04-2004 18:25
   
Toaddy
EV/OLUTIONER
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From: KIEV
Registered: 27-01-2004
Posts: 92
To Shadow: Thank!!!

20-04-2004 19:49
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Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527

al-wizard wrote:

... it's interesting to read different opinions and I even realized much more then I could say ... cool cool!!! Keep going vacuum fans, vacuum will alweys alive (at least) in our hearts. But let's wish Mattias all the best in his new independent creative activity and success for his upcoming album.



Discussion is always a good thing !  Through discussion we all realise something new , but it's not good when it becomes pure fighting. Then we spoil everything. Let's not do that. :smile:

Toaddy, about your looong "theories" :smile: ... well, I think discussing such things would be more appropriate in some thread called maybe "associations on lyrics lines" or smth like that. I myself also love reading different theories about religious, spiritual things , evolution of human consciousness etc. There is one interesting article about this last one . Here's the link , maybe you'll find it interesting http://www.omegapoint.org/journal/modul ... ?storyid=9

Actually, whole journal is interesting , full of topics that vacuum lyrics deal with  :smile:


_______________________________________
Bring on the clouds
Let the raindance begin

21-04-2004 03:44
   
x-lady N
High Vacuumist
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From: St-Petersburg
Registered: 11-03-2004
Posts: 32
Of course the discussion must not turns to aggressive attacks as we can see it in some posts like Shadow wrote. I already told that this discussion can be endless because every person have its own subjective point of view which can be stated here (and everybody already did it - it seems to me), also I don't think that the aim of the discussion to change an opponent's oppinion at any cost even if it seems wrong to you. That's why the topic can be finally stoped all the more that the most are tired to dispute.

21-04-2004 12:15
   
al-wizard
Alco-Vacuumized
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From: Canada
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 167

x-lady N wrote:

aggressive attacks as we can see it in some posts like Shadow wrote.
Agree, i even thought Shadow is the real admin, the second (subadmin) has got an order what to do, or what must be done, and right now!!! 

x-lady N wrote:

I already told that this discussion can be endless because every person have its own subjective point of view
... and i would say do not want to listen another one, or do not want to understand, or do not want to SEE (notice) any facts written here by myself and other people, they do not need it for some reasons ...


I said, Vacuum keept most of us literally alive in some live troubles!  your answer like WHO CARES, EVERYTHING IS CHANGING!!!

"Everything is changing" - CHANGING!! BUT NOT LOOSING AND DESTROING (i made examples ... Sting, Benson 2004 (just listen to his R&B of today), Elton John, Queen ...& MANY OTHERS... they never lost their faces, level, never turn in cheap and primitive ... and they DO NOT USE EVEN NOT SOMEBODY's LIKE VACUUM TODAY, BUT NEVER USE EVEN THEIR OWN "VINIL PAST" ... so far ... ).
I'm sure the music wich was created befor can be changed in ANY new arrangement, replaced some drums samples with more modern, whatever you UPDATE there it will always be A NICE and DEEP music. But if NO musical ideas ... , you can use anykind of modern keyboards - and it's HOPELESS!!! The only one way to keep the name VACUUM and sing "I breath" and "Satyricon" everywhere and everytime.

But do you wanna know what I personally missing??? it's REAL POWERFULL SINING, honestly, I miss it very much... AND plz don't answer me something stupied like "it's communist party influence ... you are in Canada and must forget about it".

everyboby has their personal reasons not to see all those arguments (i repet just ONE from HUGE quantity of questions ...), but it's another fact - we all tired of talking to each other like deaf-and-dumb. Perhaps we do not understand each other or do not want to understand. Ok, we can stop it. But at the same time we can start another one ... just i think we have to wait till CD shows up ... and then we'll see exactly - what is it? Is the music that people getting together HERE!!! at THIS SITE!! and have been waiting for years expected to be in the way it will be??? Really lets wait till everybody get the final product, then we will talk again, maybe. Or  i might personally will leave this site and band along ... really it doesn't worth it to waste time ... Both singles showed A LOT, all my thoughts and opinion based on it. It's not difficult to imagine what kind of music is the rest of songs, or you might say i'm wrong againg, the rest will be nice reach sound fully of emotional colors and expansive orchestra (or just simply) live instruments, maybe there will blow some wind of history or dramatical love ... or at least something from SERIOUSE and INTERESTING (but interesting is a little flexible thing for 15-16 years teenagers interesting is one, for 30 - another, for 45 - another, i meant interesting in musical meaning, music also has some rules, shapes and degrees of comparison) music ...? Let's see ... :hmm:

Last edited by al-wizard (21-04-2004 23:31)


21-04-2004 21:22
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al-wizard
Alco-Vacuumized
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From: Canada
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 167
By the way i've just downloaded and listened to the samples from another web site ... it changed nothing in my mind, "Leading up" could be a strong and powerfull vaccum like song, but sining ...... oh .... that what i also meant "plastic sound". I know the way he does it technically, it's really far from classical position ... but what the excuse is it for?????? I've never heard any BARITON sining like that? It's like TROMBONE will make view that it's FLUTE or TRUMPET-PICCOLO ...  strange musical decision...  And another thing that 10 the most interesting seconds of the song (beginning of the chorus in this case) - sounds nice! but completely different from real song image. So I would rather not say anything esle so far.

Last edited by al-wizard (21-04-2004 23:39)


21-04-2004 23:27
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nukleopatra
The Sacred One
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From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
DEar Al-Wizard I would HATE to see you leave the vacuum Family.... as you say wait for the final product... I promise there will be stuff on there that you will love and on some of the songs Mattias's vocals have NEVER sounded finer or stronger or full of emotion.... hope to see you in chat later today with mattias....


many thanks..


David x


_______________________________________
I've said I believe that the world is a ship
and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip
and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away
with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....

22-04-2004 00:04
   
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