Greetings to all! It was very interesting to me to read opinion of each of you. How many people - are so much and opinions. Yes, probably many of you are right, speaking, that the old Vacuum has remained in the past. Here I of anything new to you cannot tell. All changed. And not always in that party in which it would be desirable YOU! The new album already soon will leave, and all reproaches that it is made not as YOU would like - are simply ridiculous. Al_wizard, I very much respect you as the musician, but most likely Mattias makes use of the his experience at record of an album, instead of YOURS. Nukleopatra - accept my delight!! I have listened to fragments of new songs, and I think that you have very precisely described them. Shadow - I completely agree with you that this topik is time for closing. I think, that all have already told on this theme everything, that wanted and not once. It is very a pity, that many and have not learned to respect if not Mattias and his work, then interlocutors.
Thank You, Masha! I‘ve read the article, which one you have recommended to me. I too think that article is interesting. There are many interesting articles and popular scientific books about similar things. Especially I like scientific works about a Physical Vacuum.
This topic has come to the end for me. Many thanks of Masha, Aniv, X-lady, Al-Wizard, Marina and Shadow!!!
x-lady N
High Vacuumist From: St-Petersburg
Registered: 11-03-2004
Posts: 32
I see that the discussion is spontaneously lasts Marina is right that everyone already told that he/she wanted and not once. There were spoken so much words here that we returns to the start.
So, Al-Wizard, to answer to you I have to repeat all my posts as you did, but what for? You'll get the answers on all your questions if re-read all the posts of the topic. What do you waiting for from the discussion if some fans like that changes (by the by I am not speaking about myself), if they want to listen to the new-vacuum, if they like it? Or may be you want to forced your musical ideas upon Mattias and make him come back then what for to dispute it with Mattias' fans who likes all he does? I think Mattias has its own right to choose what and how to sing. You twice told about Mattias' synth, I share your "missing" and some "nostalgia", but Toaddy already got an advice to listen to the old albums at that case. About understanding - I think all posters tried to understand another point of view and respects it, but people have different perception of the same thing - one person like new Mattias' experience and another don't like. So what for trying to change opponent's opinion if a person like the new synth in spite of your "arguments" in a favour of old better (in your eyes) synth, sound, music and so on (by the way I like it more too)? Be angry that somebody doesn't share your disappointment is not right. What result of the discussion you waiting for? What do you want to change at present? You told all you wanted, didn't you? You state all your arguments, didn't you? The discussion can lasts if you have something else to tell, but if all your arguments is over let's finish the topic which can be endless if you will only repeat what was written in the begining.
I agree with all said by x-lady N. It’s exactly what I’ve been trying to explain all long time during the discussion. To finalize this senseless arguing I just would like to say some words. (Just note, please – I don’t persist on closing this topic if anyone has something to say more. I suggested to close it when sombody started to leave “excrements” here. Only because of that reek I came to thinking that the topic should be closed.)
So, to break away from endless “marmot’s day”, I recommend to read attentively Wollbeck’s interview. There are exhaustive answers concerning points debated here. With his very smart, sincere and wise answers herr Anders Wollbeck might clear up the points, which torment some of Vacuum fans. And maybe after reading his words concerning Vacuum nowadays creativity some people will comprehend many important and at the same time simple things. Just one quote from herr Wollbeck: “Listen to the new album before you make up your minds.” It’s exactly what I’ve been trying to bring for your understanding. Even yesterday’s preview doesn’t give grounds to judge seriously. Those are too small fragments to judge – they just raise curiosity
Wish you all clear thinking and understanding I’m very grateful to many persons here, who share my rightness, who tried to explain points similar or just close to my point of view.
Yours
Last edited by Shadow (22-04-2004 21:15)
_______________________________________ "I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."
I will talk and Hollywood will listen [RW]
22-04-2004 21:10
Satellite
that's me in the corner From: around
Registered: 01-04-2004
Posts: 121
Funny enough is what you say about paying too much attention to non-important things, especially in view of your touching care about Shadow's sleep. About avatars... Well, if that's what really bothers you, perhaps you'll find my advice useful: try disabling displaying pictures in your browser. Because you surely realize, my dear, that nobody would remove their avatars just because you dislike it.
Concerning closing the thread... Personally I don't think it is necessary. IMHO, closing the thread is an extreme measure and the decision is exlusively up to the admin.
_______________________________________ facebook me
nukleopatra
The Sacred One From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
Hey Simargi, up until now your posts have been well written even if somewhat hostile but now you seem to have a personal vendeta against Shadow and there is no excuse to be rude .. Shadow is entitled to her own views as much as you are.. her Avator is her choice, some people may not like yours but feel it not worthy of mentioning.. I was hoping you would have ben in chat yesterday to put your views in person to mattias so he could answer you directly... I also see no reason for any threads to be closed. all discussion is valid on this democratic board and different points of view are always interesting to hear even when they differ from our own, however your discussion with Shadow seems to be getting a little more personal and maybe you should keep that type of post to yourself..
Freedom of speach.. Freedom of choice but RESPECT to ALL..
david x
_______________________________________ I've said I believe that the world is a ship and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....
23-04-2004 08:56
x-lady N
High Vacuumist From: St-Petersburg
Registered: 11-03-2004
Posts: 32
al-wizard wrote:
But do you wanna know what I personally missing??? it's REAL POWERFULL SINING, honestly, I miss it very much... AND plz don't answer me something stupied like "it's communist party influence ... you are in Canada and must forget about it".
The communist party lost its leading influence since 1985 at any rate in Russia And some more - you can get an answer about real reasons of the changes in sining only from Mattias. Did you asked him in yesterday chat? Unfortunately I couldn't be there at that time so I don't know what questions were asked and I am really interested what he answered
Satellite, nukleopatra, I have mistaken: I wrote "avatar" but I meant "pictogram" (or "smile"... but it would be strange to call "" with a word "smile", huh?). Just because of haste I have made that stupid mistake. So I have nothing against Shadow's avatar. I really do not care.
So the corrected part of that post is: "The mirror waits before the throne" : nobody have noticed that someone told something about "masterpiece of my creativity". But everybody have noticed STANDARD STUPID PICTOGRAM (this one - ). ... 2Shadow: Ask admin to remove that pictogram and you will sleep better.
Hm... Sometimes stupid misprintings makes statements to be perversely incorrect.
nukleopatra, there were no hostile posts from me, there was my point of view, that is very close to what the most Vacuum'98 fans think. Please, DON'T TELL ME that fan of Vacuum'98 can transform into neo-Vacuum fan. Only fan of Mattias can do it. And this is the quintessence of my thoughts.
If you all love Mattias so much why don't you say it to him? Huh? Why do you say "I love Vacuum!"? You would better speak your love out loudly: "I love Mattias and his creativity". Don't lie yourselves. For me Vacuum'98's music is the greatest music (lyrics, vocal, scenes, other attributes too) ever, so I do not need any substitutes even maked by a members of Vacuum'98. And if M&W's music differs from the past period's music so much, and if M&W are the only creators of new stuff, it is time to make a new name, it is time to start not where the story was ended, but from the snow-white clean new page.
I did not come to chat yesterday because of tonnes of work to do. But there are no regrets. I had a talk with Mattias live, at "Starting Where The Story Ended" age of a band. And Mattias was speaking like "I know what to do"-person speaks. He has chosen the direction. But the only thing I can't accept is using the label to make some fame. Not a honest behaviour I suppose.
x-lady N
High Vacuumist From: St-Petersburg
Registered: 11-03-2004
Posts: 32
al-wizard wrote:
By the way i've just downloaded and listened to the samples from another web site ... it changed nothing in my mind, "Leading up" could be a strong and powerfull vaccum like song, but sining ...... oh ....
Though there is another topic I'd like to tell here that unfortunately I have to share Al-wizard opinion again after today listening to the samples. And it makes me pity... I am surprised what happened with Mattias vocal?
24-04-2004 06:49
oLya
Extreme Vacuumist From: Stockholm | Sweden
Registered: 23-01-2004
Posts: 65
PS:
x-lady N wrote:
I am surprised what happened with Mattias vocal?
And what happened to it??? Aren't you people exaggerating a bit? You've already said that new Vacuum stinks, that Mattias' jacket is lousy, that his shirt is not fresh, that BWO is better, and now when there is nothing bad left to say you decided to "discuss" his voice? It's just as good as always, if not even better! Sccuuuze me, but there have to be at least *some* limits...
_______________________________________ -:|:|:- I am one in a million, but everyone's the one -:|:|:-
Thank you, OLya! Your sharing my rightness is one of the dearest gifts among all given to me during last days This week was especial to me – so many gifts and so pleasant!
I don’t know yet how I’ll like the new Vacuum stuff. I must listen to it entirely before. I just hope your promises will be justified. You’ve heard several entire songs, so you can judge more well-grounded. And I’ll be patient until I get the album itself. Hope to be pleased then
And I'm with you as well You're right with your criticism.
Sincerely yours
Last edited by Shadow (24-04-2004 08:46)
_______________________________________ "I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."
I will talk and Hollywood will listen [RW]
24-04-2004 08:43
x-lady N
High Vacuumist From: St-Petersburg
Registered: 11-03-2004
Posts: 32
Olya, don't unite please guoting on my post - I never told something like you wrote about Mattias. And I respect him as a person and as a misician, I also respect his right to choose his own way in music. As to Mattias' voice - I don't think that I am "exaggrating a bit" when I'm talking about Mattias' voice because it is one of the components of musical creation and it sounds different at present that was I meant. This is a fact to my mind. You gave an advice to listen to another bands. Of course I'll do it, but there is a really difficult task to find so harmony combining of voice (which can be liked), tune and lyrics like was in the old Vacuum, though I understand that there is no way to the past that's why I already wrote that we can only state here our subjective points of view. And some more may be Mattias' voice was the very component of old Vacuum music so I draw my attention on it. I have to repeat what I already wrote - there are a lot of different music to any taste but Vacuum had its own style and it's lost. In my view present Vacuum becoming as one of the most loosing the past musical individuality. And I am loosing my interest to the present creation of the band more and more. It makes me pity... I hope now I clearly attributed my opinion? I tired to repeat all I wrote here. I also hope that the discussion will be over to me at least.
Why not wait till you hear the entire album, and draw your conclusions after that? It'd be SO clear to anyone who has at least some sense of music, that Vacuum of today is more mature and complicated than it has ever been!
Uh-oh... First sentence: "It is stupid to judge before listening". Second sentence - judging itself. Try to be a little bit consecutive.
oLya wrote:
switch onto listening to BWO or AOL which no longer exists.
"... and I prefer to listen to Vacuum which no longet exists too" - It would be perfect ending of quoted sentence.
oLya wrote:
To me it sounds worse than Modern Talking!
Ok. It is your right to prefer lyrics like "And I'm down here on my knees, c'mon and take me home!". Hm... To me it sounds as bad as Back Street Boys. So we have shared our opinions to each other.
Brute
Gillespie From: Silent Hill
Registered: 13-01-2004
Posts: 757
PPL! Please, Stop that! It’s not a discussion at all. You are destroying your relationships and changing opinions about you! There isn’t any real arguments has left.
Fan’s influence on W&L doesn’t exist.
I have next suggestions: 1. Wait until new album will be released. (BTW, does anybody know when????) After release start new discussion in another manner… 2. If you want to tell something about another fan use e-mail, ok? 3. While waiting for new album, spend your energy on something useful. ( for example : write new song for your band, or make an update on your site, make most part of material available…. or something like that. ‘cmon, make an anti-pirate poster!) 4. I also think that we (all) should apologize. (It would be a brilliant end of that topic). And never go down on that level again …
Last edited by Brute (25-04-2004 06:44)
_______________________________________ Do you know that we will judge angles? Do you know that the saints will judge the world? Corinthians 6:2-3 (C)Silent Hill
Dear Friends, I'm sorry that i'm answering Brute now. Dear Brute excuse me please that i'm answering you.
Brute wrote:
It’s not a discussion at all. You are destroying your relationships and changing opinions about you! There isn’t any real arguments has left.
I'm sorry about this. Please note, i'm just answering your posts, using no any rude word. I did only answering within all recent time. Even now. So what are you talking about, what discussion? BUT one remark (it's not rude at all): I do not care what is your opinion about me, just in case - sorry again.
Regarding your suggestions:
Brute wrote:
1. Wait until new album will be released. (BTW, does anybody know when????) After release start new discussion in another manner…
Especially I like when you ask, sounds honestly: BTW, does anybody know when???? Really ... When????
The second i would like just to share opinion with x-lady N (should I excuse for that? Just in case excus me ):
x-lady N wrote:
In my view present Vacuum becoming as one of the most loosing the past musical individuality. And I am loosing my interest to the present creation of the band more and more. It makes me pity...
so I'm loosing that as well i've got 1/4 of CD. 2 singles and prewiev it's anough to look through the CD image.
My manner is friendly enough, no any reasons to change it.
2. Empty. You forgot to write a suggestion here, nothing to comment... (after my answer you corrected it but anyway it was empty, i wont rewrite whole my post due to your correction)
Brute wrote:
3. If you want to tell something about another fan use e-mail, ok?
Ok. But if I don't want to tell something about another fan I will NOT use e-mail, ok?
Brute wrote:
While waiting for new album, spend your energy on something useful. ( for example : write new song for your band, or make an update on your site, make most part of material available…. or something like that. ‘cmon, make an anti-pirate poster!)
ok, why not??? If you ask, it's available. Here is a new song for my band (2 days old). Let's say "testmix".
Regarding anti-pirate poster I personally think it's a (at least) funny idea for ex USSR, Let's start from software you are all using - it's unregistered software (like your windows and so on ...), so everybody will make anti-pirates posters on unregestered adobe photoshops ... am I right or not???
Brute wrote:
5. I also think that we (all) should apologize. (It would be a brilliant end of that topic). And never go down on that level again …
Here I just disagree with you. My manner is a friendly and peacefull ... I do not see any reasons to do that, and I've never gone down with my level. You are extremely confused.
Just looking at statistic this topic is much more popular (at least visited) that anything else around, so you want close the most interesting for ppl topic? ok. And you like "sleeping forum"... Go ahead.
I apologize that i had to answer again, i'm really sorry about that, please excuse me.
Nobody can destroy the name "vacuum" ... even ex-singer. I apologize ...
There are many interesting articles and popular scientific books about similar things. Especially I like scientific works about a Physical Vacuum. 
I will talk and Hollywood will listen 
[RW]
" with a word "smile", huh?). Just because of haste I have made that stupid mistake. So I have nothing against Shadow's avatar. I really do not care.
I am surprised what happened with Mattias vocal? 
You've already said that new Vacuum stinks, that Mattias' jacket is lousy, that his shirt is not fresh, that BWO is better, and now when there is nothing bad left to say you decided to "discuss" his voice? It's just as good as always, if not even better! Sccuuuze me, but there have to be at least *some* limits... 
You forgot to write a suggestion here, nothing to comment... (after my answer you corrected it but anyway it was empty, i wont rewrite whole my post due to your correction)
am I right or not??? 
