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Satellite
that's me in the corner
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From: around
Registered: 01-04-2004
Posts: 121

Aniv wrote:

Why dont you try to create poster without using strange methods and win the competition?


yes, why not?!! :)


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11-05-2004 05:57
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Aniv
Anatoly Ivanov
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From: Saint Petersburg
Registered: 15-02-2004
Posts: 978
Shadow, I agree... Vacuum really suffered from piracy before. In '99 one could buy pirates' Seance almost in every shop.
But I hope that the contract with Soyus Records will disable pirates since they are more interested in copying of CDs that aren't released in Russia officially. (I suppose in Ukraine the situation is the same)

, !

And again about legality:
Making parodies to songs of a band with consequent placing them on the band's site is not only illegal. Such things insult the band's reputation


11-05-2004 09:14
   
Shadow
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576

Aniv wrote:

Shadow, I agree... Vacuum really suffered from piracy before.
Its exactly what I meant. Glad to hear that among Vacuum fans are so many people who understand this point. As this majority I consider your person and many people who decided to participate in the contest as well as those who cant participate but dont try to spoil the CONTEST idea. Thanks to all who support this idea with their activity or just good words. :flower:

Aniv wrote:

But I hope that the contract with Soyus Records will disable pirates since they are more interested in copying of CDs that aren't released in Russia officially. (I suppose in Ukraine the situation is the same)
Id like to hope so since it would be much easier to buy legal Vacuum stuff directly in music stores in Kiev (and other towns) than attempts to order in on-line stores (or bother foreign friends with requests for help).
:grouphug:

Aniv wrote:

And again about legality:
Making parodies to songs of a band with consequent placing them on the band's site is not only illegal. Such things insult the band's reputation
:fingal: What can I say Only sad sigh  :silent: And as always ashamed:Oh, those russians! :redface:

:varag:

Last edited by Shadow (11-05-2004 10:45)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

11-05-2004 10:43
   
nukleopatra
The Sacred One
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From: england
Registered: 20-01-2004
Posts: 330
I have to agre with everything Shadow and Aniv said.... the pirates did a LOT of damage to vacuum with the first 2 albums.. I have some really bad copies... bad spelling, shoddy artwork and i even have a copy of Seance listed as AOL..... and these albums shifted in huge quantities..... if they had been real album sales for vacuum then I feel there would be a lot more record company support and promotion ect.... so I'm thrilled that the new album has a Russian label behind it also...

Shadow its so great to see you posting back here.. we missed you...


love davidx


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and the sea that it sails is a cloth with a rip
and the cloth is still tearing and rotting away
with the children who play with tomorrow TODAY....

11-05-2004 17:16
   
Shadow
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576

nukleopatra wrote:

so I'm thrilled that the new album has a Russian label behind it also...
I even dont know whether we should consider this fact as something reassuring or something thrilling. I dont know if the situation with illegal copies of Vacuum next album will be resolved due to promoting under Russian lable or it just will make pirates activity much easier I dont know and afraid to make conjectures Will see. Will see and hope that Mattias&Anders found the right decision signing the contract with Russian lable. Will hope.

David, Im grateful for nice and warm words from you. Its dear to my heart. Thank you :flower:

Marianna :varag:

p.s.Anyway the CONTEST concept was meant to raise fans consciousness (as I understand admin's will). And it's great that people are so talented, active and wise.

Last edited by Shadow (12-05-2004 07:40)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

11-05-2004 19:48
   
Simargl
ain't
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From: 78-RUS
Registered: 07-04-2004
Posts: 31
Well, well, well... "Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad guy", w/o any facts.


Shadow wrote:

Exactly suffers. Much more than worldwide known artists.
Lies. Even in '98 there were a lot of countries where nobody knew Vacuum. For example: USA.

Aniv wrote:

Shadow, I agree... Vacuum really suffered from piracy before. In '99 one could buy pirates' Seance almost in every shop.
Is it 1999 now? Nope. It is 2004 now and the Old Vacuum is dead. So, what are you speaking about? About illegal copies of Single CDs?

Aniv wrote:

And again about legality:
Making parodies to songs of a band with consequent placing them on the band's site is not only illegal.
So ask Nika to close "fans remixes" and "fans videomixes" sections of site because of illegality.

Aniv wrote:

Such things insult the band's reputation
Am I right: You think that critics is insulting?

Shadow wrote:

...as well as those who cant participate but dont try to spoil the CONTEST idea
Spoil WHAT? The humiliating farce?

Last edited by Simargl (13-05-2004 17:43)


13-05-2004 17:38
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Shadow
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576

Simargl wrote:


Shadow wrote:

Exactly suffers. Much more than worldwide known artists.
...in '98 there were a lot of countries where nobody knew Vacuum.
This statement just confirms my point of view. If then ( in 98 ) Vacuums popularity wasnt limited mostly just by ex-sovok, they would suffer less. In European countries their legal albums would be sold enough to make money for next work.
When I ve been writing my sentences, which you kindly quote here, I meant exactly in '98 there were a lot of countries where nobody knew Vacuum. And the cause of Vacuum suffering from pirates was: because of mentioned fact too few legal albums were sold.

Simargl wrote:

Is it 1999 now? Nope. It is 2004 now and the Old Vacuum is dead. So, what are you speaking about?
Were speaking about the next:
If somebody is a loyal Vacuum fan and wants to hear from Vacuum more and more next years then this somebody should think twice before buying pirate copies. To avoid a similar to 99 the CONTEST is intended. And it has nothing to do with debating dead or alive.

Last edited by Shadow (13-05-2004 20:03)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

13-05-2004 20:00
   
Satellite
that's me in the corner
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From: around
Registered: 01-04-2004
Posts: 121
Simargl, why are you being so negative? Why treat any new idea as something bad and unneeded? The importance of the contest is confirmed by its numerous participants, so what else do you need? If you think further, you'll get the very point of it: any positive activity on this site benefits: a) Vacuum themselves (because, as David said, they do pay attention to what's going on here and take time to check the site and forum); b) fans, who through the contest found a way to express themselves; and c) Nika, who's doing her best to keep the site up, in spite of various problems. If you consider yourself her friend, or even if you don't, please think twice before sticking labels on her efforts like "humiliating farce" and so on. You know, it can hurt people, who try to make this site better and whose goal is not to promote their own ego, but to make Vacuum community stronger and more friendly. Please be careful with your statements. Why not try to be more tolerant to other people here?

With kind regards,

Alex.


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14-05-2004 02:27
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David Haglund
Sacred Vacuumist
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From: Sweden
Registered: 04-03-2004
Posts: 133

Simargl wrote:


Aniv wrote:

Shadow, I agree... Vacuum really suffered from piracy before. In '99 one could buy pirates' Seance almost in every shop.
Is it 1999 now? Nope. It is 2004 now and the Old Vacuum is dead. So, what are you speaking about? About illegal copies of Single CDs?


No, in case you hadn't noticed, there is a new album coming out soon. :rolleyes:
I see this contest as a positive way of raising the awareness on piracy among fans who might not even know they are buying illegal copies. Historically, piracy has made Vacuum famous in Russia, but hurt them immensly financially -- 95% of 2 million copies sold were illegal copies, you do the math. Vacuum signing with a Russian label might bring down the price of the CD, making it more accessible to the general public. If I had the choice of buying an official release or a shoddy pirate copy for roughly the same price, I would definitely want the original.


Simargl wrote:


Aniv wrote:

Such things insult the band's reputation
Am I right: You think that critics is insulting?


Let's not take quotes out of context here, Simargl. Critics and criticism has nothing to do with parodies or remixes in this case. It is not the same thing.


Simargl wrote:

Spoil WHAT? The humiliating farce?


Humiliating for whom? The act of humiliating people is often committed through making mean-spirited comments, and we can all see where they are coming from.

Let's check out some actual international copyright law instead of making assumptions. But I must say it is a tricky and ambiguous area. Yes, you are right in making the assumption that the photographer/author/programmer/musican owns the copyright to his/her work. This means that it is forbidden for anyone alse to profit from it; you can not sell it without licensing/paying the author or reproduce it in any manner without permission (this includes publishing it on a website or making a pirate CD).

BUT, and here comes the confusing part, you are allowed to rework an artwork into another form of art. This means that you can own the copyright to a collage or compilation, but not to the original pictures. But you are not allowed to change the original artwork in a way that it disrespects the intentions of the author. So, you can do a cover of a song and even translate it into Russian, but you cannot change it into something it isn't -- you cannot make a parody of it without permission or change the melody. (This is also why you cannot use more than four bars from an existing melody in a new song.) So, you can make a photo collage with pictures from other photographers, but you cannot use, say, someone's pictures of the Swedish king in a pornographic collage.

Then again, freedom of speech also allows for satire, which would make it OK to do parodies... It is also allowed to publish copyrighted pictures as "quotes" in academical texts, reviews or news reports.

It is very much a gray zone, this copyright business. Just use your common sense. The important thing is not to profit from someone else's work. I would go for official promotional photos from album covers and such, and avoid private photos from other fans.


/David H


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14-05-2004 05:31
   
Aniv
Anatoly Ivanov
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From: Saint Petersburg
Registered: 15-02-2004
Posts: 978
David, thank you for such a complete explanation!  :good:

14-05-2004 06:33
   
Simargl
ain't
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From: 78-RUS
Registered: 07-04-2004
Posts: 31

Satellite wrote:

Simargl, why are you being so negative?
Much more positive than ever ever before! :mellow:

2 David H.: :mellow: Thank you for using such great words as "assumptions" and brilliant-brilliant "mean-spirited comments". Wow! Truth itself.
  Sorry David, I wont answer your post because of total absense of any interest to continue. I'm really sorry.

So, I want to say "Good Bye" to everybody on this foruum. Thank you all.

Hugs.

S. aka  :fu:

Last edited by Simargl (15-05-2004 13:24)


15-05-2004 13:20
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Shadow
7777777
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576
:wink:   :biggrin:  :tears:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:
These words in Russian are just a quote from one charming Russian cartoon about Carlsson (by Astrid Lindgrens book).

If to be a bit serious :-)
Im grateful to all people who spare neither time nor emotional efforts for standing by the matter of principle. :good:  :flower:

Sincerely yours  :varag:

p.s.Actually, this post isnt too important. It just was meant to make some kind of fumigation after excrements. :winky:

:flower:  :flower:  :flower:  :flower:  :flower:  :flower:  :flower:

Last edited by Shadow (16-05-2004 11:11)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

15-05-2004 17:48
   
David Haglund
Sacred Vacuumist
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From: Sweden
Registered: 04-03-2004
Posts: 133

Simargl wrote:

2 David H.: :mellow: Thank you for using such great words as "assumptions" and brilliant-brilliant "mean-spirited comments". Wow! Truth itself.
  Sorry David, I wont answer your post because of total absense of any interest to continue. I'm really sorry.


If this is the closest I'll ever get to a "you're right", I'll take what I can get...  :claps


/David H


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18-05-2004 17:54
   
Masha
Vacuumist in the Void
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Registered: 25-03-2004
Posts: 527

Simargl wrote:

It is 2004 now and the Old Vacuum is dead. So, what are you speaking about? About illegal copies of Single CDs?


Dear Simargl, I think it's not right to say that old Vacuum is dead. Those songs from previous albums are evergreens - they can't die.
The band members may change, their creators can even abandon them and give their attention to something else, but the songs are still living. The songs are like some strange life form - they come into our ears and then they look into our heart . If they found a place there for themselves , they live they. Just like children, later, have life of their own (separate from people who made them) , so does these songs. They will live as long as there are fans hearts to live in.

Try not to see new Vacuum as something enemy like towards old Vacuum ... there is no need to defend old Vacuum - it still shines in its glory!  :smile:


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01-06-2004 05:02
   
Shadow
7777777
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From: Valhalla
Registered: 24-01-2004
Posts: 576
I share every word from Masha said right above. You are right previous Vacuum shines in its glory and doesnt need we to defend it. And even if Vacuum of nowadays is another, we hope it appears that same close to our hearts. And we should make some efforts for support. The posters CONTEST was intended for this. And I must say that results are great!!! :-) :claps:
Many talented participants and so many great works! Im impressed very much!
And Im excited seeing 2 authors from Kiev among winners :-)  :flower:  :flower:
Let this contest idea work for Vacuum for future! If you want to listen from Vacuum more and more in future, dont feed pirates. BUY LEGAL VACUUM ALBUMS AND SINGLES!
:lovevac:

Last edited by Shadow (01-06-2004 19:36)


_______________________________________
"I'll take the shot for you/I'll be the shild for you/Needless to say - I'll stand in your way/I'll take the shot for you..."

:whistle: I will talk and Hollywood will listen :tongue:  [RW]

01-06-2004 19:34
   
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